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Thread: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This is actually done daily. Officers have the flexibility to exercise judgment.
    Ultimately though it is the courts, and legislature that decide is it not?

    j-mac
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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I can't when I am accosted going about my day by people that believe their right to protest, trumps my right to go about my day. This is why I think that common laws like 'unlawful assembly' were enacted.
    Nobody can accost you legally.


    Who decides which laws we should follow, and which are irrelevant?

    j-mac
    Common law is not a law so it's irrelevant. Common law is basically the idea that one ruling should follow the same as a past ruling. With the idea of permits, some official gets to decide who can protest and who can't.

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ultimately though it is the courts, and legislature that decide is it not?

    j-mac
    No, not really. Officers decide daily. They don't stop all speeders for example. They let a shoplifter go based on the circumstances. They use judgment. Law without judgment is about as useless as no law at all.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Nobody can accost you legally.




    Common law is not a law so it's irrelevant. Common law is basically the idea that one ruling should follow the same as a past ruling. With the idea of permits, some official gets to decide who can protest and who can't.
    Like it or not this IS the LAW:

    NEW YORK PENAL LAW
    CHAPTER 40 OF THE CONSOLIDATED LAWS
    PART THREE--SPECIFIC OFFENSES
    TITLE N--OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER, PUBLIC SENSIBILITIES
    AND THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY
    ARTICLE 240--OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER

    Section 240.00 Offenses against public order; definitions of terms

    The following definitions are applicable to this article:

    1. "Public place" means a place to which the public or a substantial group of persons has access, and includes, but is not limited to, highways, transportation facilities, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds, and hallways, lobbies and other portions of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence.

    2. "Transportation facility" means any conveyance, premises or place used for or in connection with public passenger transportation, whether by air, railroad, motor vehicle or any other method. It includes aircraft, watercraft, railroad cars, buses, school buses as defined in section one hundred forty-two of the vehicle and traffic law, and air, boat, railroad and bus terminals and stations and all appurtenances thereto.

    3. "School grounds" means in or on or within any building, structure, school bus as defined in section one hundred forty-two of the vehicle and traffic law, athletic playing field, playground or land contained within the real property boundary line of a public or private elementary, parochial, intermediate, junior high, vocational or high school.

    4. "Hazardous substance" shall mean any physical, chemical, microbiological or radiological substance or matter which, because of its quantity, concentration, or physical, chemical or infectious characteristics, may cause or significantly contribute to an increase in mortality or an increase in serious irreversible or incapacitating reversible illness, or pose a substantial present or potential hazard to human health.

    5. "Age" means sixty years old or more.

    6. "Disability" means a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity.


    Section 240.05 Riot in the second degree

    A person is guilty of riot in the second degree when, simultaneously with four or more other persons, he engages in tumultuous and violent conduct and thereby intentionally or recklessly causes or creates a grave risk of causing public alarm.

    Riot in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.


    Section 240.06 Riot in the first degree

    A person is guilty of riot in the first degree when he:

    1. Simultaneously with ten or more other persons, engages in tumultuous and violent conduct and thereby intentionally or recklessly causes or creates a grave risk of causing public alarm, and in the course of and as a result of such conduct, a person other than one of the participants suffers physical injury or substantial property damage occurs; or

    2. While in a correctional facility, as that term is defined in subdivision four of section two of the correction law, simultaneously with ten or more other persons, engages in tumultuous and violent conduct and thereby intentionally or recklessly causes or creates a grave risk of causing alarm within such correctional facility and in the course of and as a result of such conduct, a person other than one of the participants suffers physical injury or substantial property damage occurs.

    Riot in the first degree is a class E felony.

    Section 240.08 Inciting to riot

    A person is guilty of inciting to riot when he urges ten or more persons to engage in tumultuous and violent conduct of a kind likely to create public alarm.

    Inciting to riot is a class A misdemeanor.


    Section 240.10 Unlawful assembly

    A person is guilty of unlawful assembly when he assembles with four or more other persons for the purpose of engaging or preparing to engage with them in tumultuous and violent conduct likely to cause public alarm, or when, being present at an assembly which either has or develops such purpose, he remains there with intent to advance that purpose.

    Unlawful assembly is a class B misdemeanor.


    Section 240.15 Criminal anarchy

    A person is guilty of criminal anarchy when (a) he advocates the overthrow of the existing form of government of this state by violence, or (b) with knowledge of its contents, he publishes, sells or distributes any document which advocates such violent overthrow, or (c) with knowledge of its purpose, he becomes a member of any organization which advocates such violent overthrow.

    Criminal anarchy is a class E felony.


    Section 240.20 Disorderly conduct

    A person is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof:

    1. He engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior; or

    2. He makes unreasonable noise; or

    3. In a public place, he uses abusive or obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or

    4. Without lawful authority, he disturbs any lawful assembly or meeting of persons; or

    5. He obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or

    6. He congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse; or

    7. He creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.

    Disorderly conduct is a violation.

    New York Penal Law
    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    1) Why do you try to extend this argument into some notion about how I feel about the 2nd Amendment ? Do not assume for me
    So, I'll simply not assume and come to the conclusion that you would rather not answer.

    2) The Occutards were not creating issues with occupancy on courthouse lawns.
    That is what this thread is about.

    Los Angeles City Atty. Carmen Trutanich is considering a lawsuit against Occupy L.A. protesters to reimburse the city for damage caused during the occupation of the City Hall lawn.


    Sorry though, City Hall, not courthouse.

    3) There you go assuming again ..... about me.
    It was a question. The way to get rid of any doubt is to answer the question.

    So, as I assume nothing, tell me if you served, for how long, and who with. Thanks.

    Otherwise, how about something other than the ad-hominems.
    Napolis. About 8 months. The rest of the employee's.

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, not really. Officers decide daily. They don't stop all speeders for example. They let a shoplifter go based on the circumstances. They use judgment. Law without judgment is about as useless as no law at all.
    That is both inaccurate, but flawed beyond belief. This is not about "speeding". Further, were a law-enforcement official fail to hold someone suspected of committing a felony, they will not be a law enforcement official for long.

    A hallmark of Justice is supposed to be consistency and objectivity, not subjectivity.

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    the gun rights vs. protest rights is a flawed narrative IMHO. I don't see many gun protests that involve obstructing peoples day at the point of guns, do you?
    The discussion was on costs associated with rights.

    When assembly turns into mob, riot, and destruction of property that are there at tax payer expense, and for their use, one group doesn't have the right to exclude those others that don't agree with them.

    j-mac
    I noted that if the fountain was damaged, that was likely a criminal action, not a civil.

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    That is both inaccurate, but flawed beyond belief. This is not about "speeding". Further, were a law-enforcement official fail to hold someone suspected of committing a felony, they will not be a law enforcement official for long.

    A hallmark of Justice is supposed to be consistency and objectivity, not subjectivity.
    That's simply not true. Sorry. And no where did I say there was objectivity. And what is meant by consistency is up for some deabte. Good judgment is a requirment of justice. It is why zero tolerance laws are so stupid.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    That is both inaccurate, but flawed beyond belief. This is not about "speeding". Further, were a law-enforcement official fail to hold someone suspected of committing a felony, they will not be a law enforcement official for long.
    Of course they will and it's done everyday. People suspected of felonies are released everyday because we have rights that protect us from guilt based upon suspisions.

    A hallmark of Justice is supposed to be consistency and objectivity, not subjectivity.
    Which is exactly why a permit system is flawed. We saw where the Tea Party was forced to jump through hoops in N. Carolina and the OWS group wasn't.

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    Re: L.A. might sue Occupy L.A. protestors for financial damages

    Since this is about L.A. Here is their law.

    UNLAWFULLY ASSEMBLY
    PENAL CODE SECTION 407
    Whenever two or more persons assemble together to do an unlawful act, or do a lawful act in a
    violent, boisterous, or tumultuous manner, such assembly is an unlawful assembly.
    PENAL CODE SECTION 408
    Every person who participates in any rout or unlawful assembly is guilty of a misdemeanor.
    CALJIC 16.240
    UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLY
    It is an unlawful assembly:
    [Whenever two or more persons assemble together for the purpose of doing an unlawful act[.]] [,
    or]
    [Whenever two or more persons who are assembled together do a lawful act in a violent,
    boisterous, or tumultuous manner, that is, where such act or acts are themselves violent or tend to incite
    others to violence.]
    [An assembly of two or more persons assembled together to do a lawful act is not unlawful
    unless the assembly is or becomes violent or gives rise to a clear and present danger of immediate
    violence.]

    www.nlg-la.org/index_files/codes.pdf

    Check it out people....it is AGAINST the law.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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