Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

misterman said:

Oh, I do - still, I have alot more than that. For instance, I have a few people who would be dead bodies, but instead are good friends of my kids due to my patience and ability to impart knowledge and understanding. That's a better outcome for everyone.

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hmmm... patience. I will have to work on that I guess. I always found that whenever there is a problem it is easiest just to eliminate it.

Aunt Spiker said:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/parents-angry-after-school-put-autistic-son-in-bag/



My oldest son is mildly autistic - when he was younger we had a lot of issues with the school he attended. As he grew older some of his issues sort of faded - he learned about to be in more control of his self, etc. . . making it easier to teach him and he distrupted the class less.

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All the best with making his life as full as possible!

Schools are failing miserably to keep up with the growing number of students who have issues.

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There are indeed an increasing amount of children with special needs, especially the increasing and alarming rate of autism.

So to meet those needs, you would, of course, be in Favor of Increased Taxes for everyone (Local, State, and/or Federal) to pay for said increased needs.
Or .... would you take the position more consistent with your previous ones... that YOU personally should have to pay for your own child's problem (that say <1% of children have) and bear such costs yourself. Why do schools/other-taxpayers owe you esoteric 'special' treatment?

always interesting to see how 'rugged' individualists/libertarians etc, feel when it's their entitlement on the line.

misterman said:

Agree, but how to get there is the question. Autistic kids won't necessarily learn that from experience. They may need intensive instruction on how to socialize before they actually do it. And they still get this instruction in public school, just not in the main classroom.

The truth is that "mainstreaming" can be alot of different things, from giving the kids all the same experiences that a regular kid gets in a classroom to sending them to a regular school, but then having them pulled out for special ed classes. Whatever works best for each kid.

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I completely agree with you, it has to be based on the needs of each child. There was an autistic boy at my kids' high school. I think he took the odd elective class with the rest of the kids, took core classes at his level, but I know for sure he attended a class in social preparedness, with others of course who needed the same help. I was at a presentation his teacher gave to request funds for various outside trips he on which he wanted to take his class.

I thought the concept was brilliant, to put them in situations and teach them how to cope. The class wasn't only for autistic kids, but anyone who had need for that kind of teaching.

Bodhisattva said:

hmmm... patience. I will have to work on that I guess. I always found that whenever there is a problem it is easiest just to eliminate it.

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Easiest solution, perhaps, but not always the best solution.

Gina said:

I completely agree with you, it has to be based on the needs of each child. There was an autistic boy at my kids' high school. I think he took the odd elective class with the rest of the kids, took core classes at his level, but I know for sure he attended a class in social preparedness, with others of course who needed the same help. I was at a presentation his teacher gave to request funds for various outside trips he on which he wanted to take his class.

I thought the concept was brilliant, to put them in situations and teach them how to cope. The class wasn't only for autistic kids, but anyone who had need for that kind of teaching.

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Right, which is why they have Individualized Education Programs.

mbig said:

Why do schools/other-taxpayers owe you esoteric 'special' treatment?

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It's the law.

misterman said:

Easiest solution, perhaps, but not always the best solution.

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Actually patience is my thing... I find it is the easiest 97% of the time if not more if for no other reason than to not let others understand or know what you might do or plan. Patience is working well and burying my ex wife and partner in the Court process right now and it is great.

megaprogman said:

Well garbage bags are out because of the chance of suffocation, as is beating.

However, if my perceptions were such that being placed in a bag were comforting, than it would be ok. What is good and bad in these situations is entirely based on preference and perception

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it's a little like a crate can be comforting to a dog, and swaddling a baby can help calm him.

Fiddytree said:

It's the law.

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Duh.
I was asking Aunt what Her Opinion was on the situation.
SHOULD all people pay taxes, indeed even MORE taxes, for the needs of a very Few, or as so many ''rugged' individualists/libertarians'' etc. say about Many similar welfare/govt sponsored services... Should they be the responsibility of the family itself, or perhaps charity.

I was asking Her opinion/making a political point, not asking about the law, which incidentally, wasn't a Meaningful 'the law' until 1975 and the 'Civil Rights' and 'Great Society' period 'laws';
Background & Analysis | Federal Education Budget Project
A law, like many of the period, that some might object to.
An 'according to need' law, that if you favor, especially if you to extend further and more lavishly, puts some political pressure on you in other areas if one is to be politically consistent.
Some, ie, object to Social Security and/or it's disability provisions, no one questions if the act exists.
Which is why, I suppose, I haven't been answered despite the OP visiting several times.

mbig said:

All the best with making his life as full as possible!

There are indeed an increasing amount of children with special needs, especially the increasing and alarming rate of autism.

So to meet those needs, you would, of course, be in Favor of Increased Taxes for everyone (Local, State, and/or Federal) to pay for said increased needs.
Or .... would you take the position more consistent with your previous ones... that YOU personally should have to pay for your own child's problem (that say <1% of children have) and bear such costs yourself. Why do schools/other-taxpayers owe you esoteric 'special' treatment?

always interesting to see how 'rugged' individualists/libertarians etc, feel when it's their entitlement on the line.

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autism is becoming like adhd, the disease of the month. it's over diagnosed and misdiagnosed.

I don't know what new details we have on this scenario.

My understanding is that the bag, I think, was a "lycra(?)" bag used especially for the treatment of autistic children, and that the student's own mother knew of and, I think, approved of the use of that bag.

If this is the case, then I think this issue has resolved.

Bodhisattva said:

Actually patience is my thing... I find it is the easiest 97% of the time if not more if for no other reason than to not let others understand or know what you might do or plan. Patience is working well and burying my ex wife and partner in the Court process right now and it is great.

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Patience is still being married.

liblady said:

autism is becoming like adhd, the disease of the month. it's over diagnosed and misdiagnosed.

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Please provide scientific evidence that autism and adhd are overdiagnosed.

misterman said:

Please provide scientific evidence that autism and adhd are overdiagnosed.

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i can provide articles, not necessarily scientific evidence. i believe, as do many, that people have a need to lable anything they view as normal, and also to blame their children's bad behavior on a disorder, like adhd (wildly overdiagnosed) and autism. it's undoubtedly true that people have these disorders, but autism used to be narrowly defined, and now the definition is sufficently vague that kids are over diagnosed. and adhd? too many kids are being put on medication that don't need to be. a sympton of parents taking the easy way out.

The Autism Generation - Allen Frances - Project Syndicate

Psychiatric Fads and Overdiagnosis | Psychology Today

liblady said:

i can provide articles, not necessarily scientific evidence.

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Then don't make the claims.

Here, I'll put you out of your misery, with scientific evidence that ADHD is NOT overdiagnosed:

J Atten Disord. 2007 Sep;11(2):106-13.

Evaluating the evidence for and against the overdiagnosis of ADHD.

Sciutto MJ, Eisenberg M.


Source

Muhlenberg College, Allentwon, Pennsylvania 18104, USA. sciutto@muhlenberg.edu


Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

According to the DSM-IV TR, approximately 3 to 7% of school-age children meet the criteria for ADHD. However, there is a common conception that ADHD is overdiagnosed. The purpose of this article is to evaluate the evidence for and against overdiagnosis.

METHOD:

Recent prevalence studies and research on factors affecting diagnostic accuracy were reviewed. For ADHD to be overdiagnosed, the rate of false positives (i.e., children inappropriately diagnosed with ADHD) must substantially exceed the number of false negatives (children with ADHD who are not identified or diagnosed).

RESULTS AND CONCLUSION:

Based on the review of prevalence studies and research on the diagnostic process, there does not appear to be sufficient justification for the conclusion that ADHD is systematically overdiagnosed. Yet, this conclusion is generally not reflected in public perceptions or media coverage of ADHD. Potential explanations for the persistence of the belief in the overdiagnosis of ADHD are offered.

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Evaluating the evidence for and against the o... [J Atten Disord. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

There. Let's not have any more nonsense about ADHD being overdiagnosed.

I'm too lazy to go find you autism data, but you get the picture.

One study or article does not a case make. Sciutto and Eisenberg's conclusions are suggestive but not definitive.

If you want to argue over ADD/ADHD, with someone who has it and has studied it, you may want to start a thread about it.

nota bene said:

One study or article does not a case make. Sciutto and Eisenberg's conclusions are suggestive but not definitive.

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You realize that their conclusions were a meta-study, meaning they looked at lots of studies, instead of just one, right? So, yeah, I agree.

If you have conflicting evidence, post it. Otherwise, I've posted actual scientific data supporting my claim.

Aunt Spiker said:

She didn't know they were putting him in the bag - I think her lack of knowledge is another issue being highlighted: parents don't ask enough questions when it comes to their children and how they're being cared for when they're not around . . . according to her in the article she sort of knew they used a bag as part of punishment and just assumed he rolled around on the bag like a sensory-stimulus to refocus him mentally.

I think she's stupid - if someone told me 'we used a bag when your son acted out.' I'd immediately ask "what do you mean, how did you use it?"

I'm not only taken aback at their treatment of children - but at the aprents and their overwhelming lack of knowledge and involvement.

Geesh - just wow people.

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Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make before when I posted in the thread.

Perhaps these schools dealing with autistic kids need to have some kind of rule in which they demonstrate such things to parents before enrollment. I mean for all we know the school may not have told the parents that they use bags at all. And, a lot of the times, I think it may be that a lot of the time people don't even know what questions are relevant to ask.

That's happened to me a lot of the time - I'm curious about a subject but I don't even know what things are pertinent enough to ask about.

Oh, excuse me, but the post to which I responded was one in which another offered to put somebody "out of her misery" by posting a link to one study and then dismissively said, "Let's not have any more nonsense about ADHD being overdiagnosed" as if ONE study proves anything. It does not, meta or smaller.

nota bene said:

Oh, excuse me, but the post to which I responded was one in which another offered to put somebody "out of her misery" by posting a link to one study and then dismissively said, "Let's not have any more nonsense about ADHD being overdiagnosed" as if ONE study proves anything. It does not, meta or smaller.

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Yes, a meta-study is very strong evidence. You have offered no evidence to counter it. That's pretty much where things stand.

Then I must defer to your scholarly expertise. But please do read this:

Meta Analysis and Meta Studies

Bodhisattva said:

Oh... you don't havea trail of bodies in your past due to people messing with your kids. We are very different parents, apparently.

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Again with the mocking:roll:

Ockham said:

Absolutely - the teacher is responsible for that child while he/she is at school.

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And, in the meantime, what about the other 20-30+ kids? (I know I'm late to this thread, so apologies if it's already been addressed). I'm not defending this, I don't know enough about it, but I can't help but to feel sorry for teachers. One especially disruptive kid takes focus and attention away from other kids who may need it as well but are just quiter about it.

misterman said:

Then don't make the claims.

Here, I'll put you out of your misery, with scientific evidence that ADHD is NOT overdiagnosed:
Evaluating the evidence for and against the o... [J Atten Disord. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI
There. Let's not have any more nonsense about ADHD being overdiagnosed.
I'm too lazy to go find you autism data, but you get the picture.

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So certain are you. Hmmm...well...I suppose they got it all figured out AFTER August 2011...

"ADHD is the most extensively studied pediatric mental health disorder, yet controversy and public debate over the diagnosis and medication treatment of the disorder continue to exist.1 Questions and concerns are raised by professionals, media commentators, and the public about the possibility of overdiagnosis of ADHD in youths and the possibility of overprescribing stimulant medications"

"The evaluation process is essentially a time-consuming cognitive endeavor of pattern matching the patient’s symptoms and disease course with what is known about the natural history of ADHD and hypothesis testing and integrating all available data. This systematic evaluation establishes that all clinical criteria for an ADHD diagnosis are met. Faced with severe payer and clinical time constraints, many physicians diagnose ADHD by emphasizing a present oriented, cross-sectional symptom evaluation. This type of evaluation may result in overdiagnosing ADHD, or underidentifying ADHD in children with complex and comorbid presentations"

But then...what would Dr Daniel Connor, the Lockean Distinguished Professor of Psychiatry and Chief, Division of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at the University of Connecticut School of Medicine know....

Problems of Overdiagnosis and Overprescribing in ADHD - Psychiatric Times

Anyone that speaks in absolutes about such things...well...all we know for sure is THEIR mind is made up, regardless of whether or not the science can prove ANYTHING.