• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

Kali said:
Well I tell you this: forget all this shrink crap and how it calms someone down cause they may feel as if they were in the womb or whatever bull**** babble they are calling it: kids should not be placed in bags. Period. Folks can quote any all bs about this working and I call it degrading as hell and abuse at most!

Reminds me of blanket training babies and wrapping children up in blankets and then beating them! How the hell would you feel if someone tossed up in a garbage bag or ANY kind of bag to sooth you? Hell no.
Click to expand...

This reminds you of wrapping kids in blankets and beating them? Ummm... what?

...and if it works it is not BS.



EDIT: No idea why your post does not show the second paragraph that I have quoted.
 
Bodhisattva said:
As usual, you sound reasonable...
Click to expand...

Mock all you want but if/when I ever have kids? I will be worse than a mamabear. Nobody gonna mess with mine and if they do? They best be ready to die.
 
Bodhisattva said:
This reminds you of wrapping kids in blankets and beating them? Ummm... what?

...and if it works it is not BS.



EDIT: No idea why your post does not show the second paragraph that I have quoted.
Click to expand...

Yes. It reminded me of this show I saw where extreme parents would wrap their kids in a blanket and beat them. The parents were fundies and thought it was fine. So yeah it made me think of that as it is all abuse.

BTW. Yes. If ABUSE works? It is still B.S.
 
Last edited:
Kali said:
Mock all you want but if/when I ever have kids? I will be worse than a mamabear. Nobody gonna mess with mine and if they do? They best be ready to die.
Click to expand...

I am not mocking you... you truly sound reasonable. Kill a person for putting your kid in a bag. Got it.

Regarding abuse. You can call anything "abuse" if you like. Hearing my daughter learn to play the trumpet is abuse. Oh the horror.

It was a school policy and the parents were dorks for not knowing this and they freaked.
 
Kali said:
Well I tell you this: forget all this shrink crap and how it calms someone down cause they may feel as if they were in the womb or whatever bull**** babble they are calling it: kids should not be placed in bags. Period. Folks can quote any all bs about this working and I call it degrading as hell and abuse at most!

Reminds me of blanket training babies and wrapping children up in blankets and then beating them! How the hell would you feel if someone tossed YOU in a garbage bag or ANY kind of bag to sooth you? Hell no. There are better ways and this bag therapy is crap. And degrading and insulting and wrong wrong wrong. You do not place humans in bags to calm them down. esp ones that cover the head.
Click to expand...
watch this movie and see if you hold the same views after watching it:
IMDb - Temple Grandin (TV 2010)
 
Kali said:
Well I tell you this: forget all this shrink crap and how it calms someone down cause they may feel as if they were in the womb or whatever bull**** babble they are calling it: kids should not be placed in bags. Period. Folks can quote any all bs about this working and I call it degrading as hell and abuse at most!

Reminds me of blanket training babies and wrapping children up in blankets and then beating them! How the hell would you feel if someone tossed YOU in a garbage bag or ANY kind of bag to sooth you? Hell no. There are better ways and this bag therapy is crap. And degrading and insulting and wrong wrong wrong. You do not place humans in bags to calm them down. esp ones that cover the head.
Click to expand...

Well garbage bags are out because of the chance of suffocation, as is beating.

However, if my perceptions were such that being placed in a bag were comforting, than it would be ok. What is good and bad in these situations is entirely based on preference and perception
 
Kali said:
If I had kids and someone did that to my child? I would go crazy and kill some folks. Just wrong :(
Click to expand...

Someone didn't read through the thread.
 
Kali said:
Mock all you want but if/when I ever have kids? I will be worse than a mamabear. Nobody gonna mess with mine and if they do? They best be ready to die.
Click to expand...

:lol: Having kids is alot more complicated than that.
 
Kali said:
Yes. It reminded me of this show I saw where extreme parents would wrap their kids in a blanket and beat them. The parents were fundies and thought it was fine. So yeah it made me think of that as it is all abuse.

BTW. Yes. If ABUSE works? It is still B.S.
Click to expand...

Hug machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Temple Grandin invented this. She has autism herself. She used it on herself.

This is a little more complicated an issue than you realize. You should read through the thread.
 
The owner of the place I used to work had an autistic child. He would bring him with him on occasion when he would come in and check on things. One day this child started acting up. I guess he was around 10-11 at the time. The owner basically put him in a huge bear hug and pinned him against himself. The guy was a pretty big guy and I was a bit shocked.

He came to me afterwards and explained that it was the best way to calm him down. I imagine if I had walked into a school and saw a teacher doing this to a kid I would have been quite shocked also and might even have intervened. My intitial reaction was and would have been wrong based upon ignorance of the situation.
 
No Perry - that is one method that is taught to parents. I would not consider it unacceptable, shocking or abusive if someone did that. Like I said before - there are acceptable methods of actually calming down a child who is out of control.

Tying them up in a canvas gym bag is not one of them.

The only time the bag thing would be remotely acceptable is if the parents initiated it not as a punishment - and it was done in a certain way and with certain considerations . . . . like how Frolicking Dinosaurs explained - and what she brought up, the child wasn't fully contained either.

I still, personally, would not do it. . . .but I wouldn't' consider it abusive if parents did it with calm care, caution, a watchful eye and knowledge.

And in this OP case: the parents didn't initiate or suggest this - the school did it all on their own . . . no matter what, without parental permission explicitly given NOTHING is permitted to be done that wasn't detailed in in the school rules.

None of that is present here in this OP case - all I see is endangerment, carelessness, neglect - from the school and even from teh parents who aren't inquiring about the school's responses to their children.
 
Last edited:
Aunt Spiker said:
No Perry - that is one method that is taught to parents. I would not consider it unacceptable, shocking or abusive if someone did that. Like I said before - there are acceptable methods of actually calming down a child who is out of control.
Click to expand...

But it was shocking to me. That has been my point all along. How many were intially shocked to read about a kid being placed in a bag? Putting aside that the school very well may not have used what is generally accepted, how many would have been shocked by the idea of putting a kid in a bag at all?

Tying them up in a canvas gym bag is not one of them.

The only time the bag thing would be remotely acceptable is if the parents initiated it not as a punishment - and it was done in a certain way and with certain considerations . . . . like how Frolicking Dinosaurs explained - and what she brought up, the child wasn't fully contained either.
Click to expand...

So since we have agreed that this wasn't quite as shocking as it initially appeared, has anyone's shock dissapaited any?

I still, personally, would not do it. . . .but I wouldn't' consider it abusive if parents did it with calm care, caution, a watchful eye and knowledge.
Click to expand...

Which we do not know wasn't done here.

And in this OP case: the parents didn't initiate or suggest this - the school did it all on their own . . . no matter what, without parental permission explicitly given NOTHING is permitted to be done that wasn't detailed in in the school rules.
Click to expand...

IF, I had a kid beating his head against the wall and I was told that this was the only way they could stop him from either hurting himself or someone else, and knowing how autism affects him, I might be greatful.

None of that is present here in this OP case - all I see is endangerment, carelessness, neglect - from the school and even from teh parents who aren't inquiring about the school's responses to their children.
Click to expand...

It's a brief recap from one side. It's why more than a couple have noted that they would need far more information to make a judgement.
 
Shock shock shock - why is this your focus? My response is not solely one of initial shock - give a little bit of time and it fades. . . who on earth lets their feelings about maltreatment of children FADE over time? You're reading the "I'd likely lose my temper and get violent if I walked into that situation" as if that's my only response or view on this situation.

Other than imagining how I'd respond if it happened to me - my response is one of "what is and what is not acceptable" to do in regard to punishing or containing a child who is out of control. . . period.

I'm still offended and insulted that they felt it was appropriate.
I'm still surprised that the parents didn't fully 'know' what was going on because they didn't ask any questions.

My response isn't a knee-jerk emotional reaction that will quell. I will feel the same 20 years from now - it will not abate. I considered this to be abusive and worthy of a serious investigation into the school district and their admitted maltreatment and neglect of special needs children and just children in general and I hope this serves as an eye opening event to ALL parents who blindly trust the school and make assumption about the care their children are receiving.
 
Last edited:
Aunt Spiker said:
Shock shock shock - why is this your focus?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to pursue an avenue of discussion you weren't interested in.
 
misterman said:
:lol: Having kids is alot more complicated than that.
Click to expand...

Oh... you don't havea trail of bodies in your past due to people messing with your kids. We are very different parents, apparently.
 
Looks like those parents will be pretty rich soon!
 
Paper or Plastic? Let's hope they had the environment in mind.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Oh... you don't havea trail of bodies in your past due to people messing with your kids. We are very different parents, apparently.
Click to expand...

Oh, I do - still, I have alot more than that. For instance, I have a few people who would be dead bodies, but instead are good friends of my kids due to my patience and ability to impart knowledge and understanding. That's a better outcome for everyone.
 
Hare said:
Paper or Plastic? Let's hope they had the environment in mind.
Click to expand...

Reusable canvas. The REAL environmentalist's choice.
 
Gina said:
I agree with mainstreaming as many of these kids as we can.
Click to expand...

The interesting, and frustrating, fact is that many parents of young kids with autism, unaware that mainstreaming is something that was fought for over many decades, now think it's bad. They think their kids need special help in their own classrooms. It's an interesting dynamic.
 
misterman said:
The interesting, and frustrating, fact is that many parents of young kids with autism, unaware that mainstreaming is something that was fought for over many decades, now think it's bad. They think their kids need special help in their own classrooms. It's an interesting dynamic.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting dynamic and one I'm unaware of. I guess the pendulum of public/parental opinion swings. I'd want them experiencing as much of the mainstream of society as possible, since they will be part of it (unless of course they are utterly without the ability to do so). The world can be cruel and insulating them then expecting them to function in it without preparation, is more cruel.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
You're touching on this 'was he crying and traumatized' - I think that's the whole problem, here . . . Special Needs children are treated differently often because people assume that since they react different - it's ok. That does NOT make anything 'ok'
Click to expand...

A lot of normal kids are not wusses,so I do not think many of them would have reacted any different then that autistic kid who was in a duffel bag. If they were being teased while they were in the bag, have claustrophobia, or some kids were kicking the crap out of the kid while the kid was in the bag then I could see a child having a different reaction regardless if they are normal or are autistic.

We have no clue, really. We weren't there. Maybe he cried for a long time, we don't know. . . maybe he was traumatized. Why do you think he wasn't? Why do you think that's the line on this?
Click to expand...
You do not think the parents would have told the news reporter their child was crying or that their child told them that he was crying,hurt or what ever?

I'm not cuing into that at all - that has no bearing on this. My son is emotionally stunted - doesn't mean I can treat him like less of a person because he doesn't respond the same way 'normal' kids do. There are many situations which are considered abuse or neglect in which the child isn't traumatized nor do they cry about it - but it's wrong regardless.
Click to expand...

Putting someone in a bag has nothing to do with dehumanizing someone. You are overreacting. Children do all kinds of weird ****.
 
Gina said:
That is an interesting dynamic and one I'm unaware of. I guess the pendulum of public/parental opinion swings. I'd want them experiencing as much of the mainstream of society as possible, since they will be part of it (unless of course they are utterly without the ability to do so). The world can be cruel and insulating them then expecting them to function in it without preparation, is more cruel.
Click to expand...

Agree, but how to get there is the question. Autistic kids won't necessarily learn that from experience. They may need intensive instruction on how to socialize before they actually do it. And they still get this instruction in public school, just not in the main classroom.

The truth is that "mainstreaming" can be alot of different things, from giving the kids all the same experiences that a regular kid gets in a classroom to sending them to a regular school, but then having them pulled out for special ed classes. Whatever works best for each kid.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom