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Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

Aunt Spiker said:
............... How do you think parents would respond if "when your child is out of control we will place him/her in a gym bag and tie it closed until they calm down" in the rule and guidelines manual?
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Answer: Don't expect the governent to take care of your child.
 
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jamesrage said:
I suspect that they didn't have exactly the type of bag that was needed and went for the next best thing. I do not think it was a hey lets stick this dumb ass dee dee dee in a sack for our own personal amusement.
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I certainly wouldn't dimiss that possibility.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
That makes a difference to you?
I don't believe in confining anyone like that as part of a punishment or with any type of a negative - I don't care what 'theraputic' benefits it brings in certain settings.
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This sounds like those who argue against vaccinating their kids.

Is this how they deal with 'normal' children who are not special needs? No freaking way - obviously - because this is ONLY for the special needs kids and no one else.
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How kids who do not have autism are treated is irrelevant.

How do you think parents would respond if "when your child is out of control we will place him/her in a gym bag and tie it closed until they calm down" in the rule and guidelines manual?
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I do not think anyone is argueing that it's not possible that the school either abused or misunderstood the therapy.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Answer: Don't expect the governent to take care of your shild.
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That makes no sense in this regard - the government will be upholding the law if it goes to court and investigating to ensure children aren't treated even worse than this.

This, also, isn't some sort of government mandated measure.

That being said: are you suggesting that all parents should homeschool?

I think don't it's too much to ask that teachers (etc) properly care for the children they choose to teach.
 
Autistic individuals will often act out because they are deeply troubled by having too much incoming stimulus (over-stimulation). Part of the disorder is inability to filter out incoming stimulus - things like sounds, smells, tastes, touches, changes in lighting. Overstimulated autistic individuals often are comforted when there is pressure applied to various parts of the body or to the whole body. This is a well-documented fact and there are a number of devices like the Lycra bag to assist in comforting them. The Lycra bag is also used to treat some spacial and other sensory disorders. Lycra bags are not a punishment - they are a medical intervention for an overstimulated autistic person.

Confining a child in something like a duffel bag does not provide pressure all over the body, does not allow the child to see and does not allow the child to free himself. I would think being put in a duffel bag for an hour would frighten anyone - autistic or not.

The teachers and aides should have understood that firm pressure - not confinement - is the therapeutic component of the Lycra bag intervention and been able to deduce that just stuffing the kid into any old bag was inappropriate.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Answer: Don't expect the governent to take care of your child.
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When the government makes education mandatory, you have a right to expect that the people being paid to educate your child are capable of handling them without sticking them in a freaking bag.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
When the government makes education mandatory, you have a right to expect that the people being paid to educate your child are capable of handling them without sticking them in a freaking bag.
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Enrollment in government school is not mandatory. Duh.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
That makes no sense in this regard - the government will be upholding the law if it goes to court and investigating to ensure children aren't treated even worse than this.

This, also, isn't some sort of government mandated measure.

That being said: are you suggesting that all parents should homeschool?

I think don't it's too much to ask that teachers (etc) properly care for the children they choose to teach.
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Do you think every school district in the country will have the same faclilities available for special needs ? That they will then treat all within the same protocols ?

Not going to happen. You can lobby your school district. But otherwise, you may have to accept bag therapy, or second rate care, if that is your district's policy. And if it is, and you keep your child in public school, then blame no one but yourself.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
It is if you can't afford a private school.
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If your life choices are such that one can ony afford to live in a trailer park, then is living in a trailer park "mandatory" ?

Sorry, but there is nothing "mandatory" about sending a child to public school in the US. It may be the only option one has left themselves, but that is a result of your choices, and no one else's.
 
I haven't read the entire thread, but I did read about this in yesterday's papers. It was described as a standard duffle bag with a cord threaded through the opening so it could be tied shut.

No child should ever be bagged up like this!! NO CHILD! Disrupting the classroom? Then find a therapeudic and accepted manner of dealing with it. Hell, they might just as well have handcuffed him to a chair with duct tape over his mouth. That would end the disruption. This is sooo upsetting, particularly since the school is defending the practice.

Seriously, I'm horrified. :(
 
So I've read the article and most of the thread. As I see it:

Lycra bags are accepted therapy. I can see why. I am not autistic, but I have a mild sensory integration disorder. Mine is related mostly to sound, and has lessened as I've gotten older, but if there was some way to translate this concept to hearing, I'd have been all over it as a kid who had a hard time dealing when I was overwhelmed.

These bags are non-restrictive, see-through, and give a mild pressure that many autistics find soothing. I see nothing wrong with using this as therapy or as a way of de-escalating a melt down. Under 2 conditions:

1. The parents knows it may be used and has consented.
2. The therapy has been tried and has found to offer the child benefit. All autistic/sensitive children are different. What works for one may not work for another.

It sounds to me like the mother in this article gets all of this. But here are the issues:

1. This was not a therapeutic bag, but a sack which restricted movement, could not be seen out of, and is not known to offer any therapeutic benefit in any circumstance.
2. The child was left in the hallway. This is basically callousness at best and a form of humiliation at worst. But on top of that, it is also anti-therapeutic to a child who is freaking out due to sensory overload.

That is the issue here, as I see it.

While it sounds immediately despicable to "put a child in a bag," I can see why it may not be assuming it offers therapeutic benefit and the parent is aware. Sounds like the mother agrees. The issue here is the execution of this concept.
 
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DiAnna said:
I haven't read the entire thread, but I did read about this in yesterday's papers. It was described as a standard duffle bag with a cord threaded through the opening so it could be tied shut.

No child should ever be bagged up like this!! NO CHILD! Disrupting the classroom? Then find a therapeudic and accepted manner of dealing with it. Hell, they might just as well have handcuffed him to a chair with duct tape over his mouth. That would end the disruption. This is sooo upsetting, particularly since the school is defending the practice.

Seriously, I'm horrified. :(
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I haven't seen a reply from the school.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
If your life choices are such that one can ony afford to live in a trailer park, then is living in a trailer park "mandatory" ?
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Your comparison falls short -- the government doesn't mandate that you live in a home, mobile or otherwise.

Eighty Deuce said:
Sorry, but there is nothing "mandatory" about sending a child to public school in the US. It may be the only option one has left themselves, but that is a result of your choices, and no one else's.
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If the government mandates education, and you can't afford private education or private education isn't available in your area, then public education in effect becomes mandatory.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
So I've read the article and most of the thread. As I see it:

Lycra bags are accepted therapy. I can see why. I am not autistic, but I have a mild sensory integration disorder. Mine is related mostly to sound, and has lessened as I've gotten older, but if there was some way to translate this concept to hearing, I'd have been all over it as a kid who had a hard time dealing when I was overwhelmed.

These bags are non-restrictive, see-through, and give a mild pressure that many autistics find soothing. I see nothing wrong with using this as therapy or as a way of de-escalating a melt down. Under 2 conditions:

1. The parents knows it may be used and has consented.
2. The therapy has been tried and has found to offer the child benefit. All autistic/sensitive children are different. What works for one may not work for another.

It sounds to me like the mother in this article gets all of this. But here are the issues:

1. This was not a therapeutic bag, but a sack which restricted movement, could not be seen out of, and is not known to offer any therapeutic benefit in any circumstance.
2. The child was left in the hallway. This is basically callousness at best and a form of humiliation at worst. But on top of that, it is also anti-therapeutic to a child who is freaking out due to sensory overload.

That is the issue here, as I see it.

While it sounds immediately despicable to "put a child in a bag," I can see why it may not be assuming it offers therapeutic benefit and the parent is aware. Sounds like the mother agrees. The issue here is the execution of this concept.
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That's an excellent summary and analysis.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Do you think every school district in the country will have the same faclilities available for special needs ? That they will then treat all within the same protocols ?

Not going to happen. You can lobby your school district. But otherwise, you may have to accept bag therapy, or second rate care, if that is your district's policy. And if it is, and you keep your child in public school, then blame no one but yourself.
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May have to accept it? May have to settle for it?

Why - since when? Since when have parents had no input or say in school happenings, no value and no weight?

Our taxes pay for our schooling facilities and so forth - why should anyone settle for what they do not approve of?

I think that suggestion is tripe. . . I have a lot of sway in my school district - all of us parents do - because we're valued, respected and our children are valued too. We haven't lost our way, here. . . and we would not permit such actions. I know my school district isn't that rock bottom . . . there'd be hell to pay if it was.

There is nothing wrong with setting standards and expecting them to be met.
 
Temporal said:
I've seen more than you have, and my son is autistic. Your apologism for this kind of approach sickens me, Josie. For once could you get a reality check and not side with authority? I know you love to so much, but in this case you're wrong. How hard would it have been to separate the autistic student and put him in a different room, even alone if necessary, to cool down? How hard would it be to have an extra staff member on hand to be with him, and help him to express what the problem is? This is what virtually every district does in modern America.

Autistic children don't act out for no reason, and it's not "acting out" but trying to express a problem in a dysfunctional way. The fact that it's being framed as "acting out" suggests that rules are being broken in a delinquent way. That's now how autistic children operate. If they are a danger to others then of course restraint is sometimes necessary, but "bag therapy" is not a therapy in the modern world. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet; a bag by any other name is still a BAG being put over a kid and sealed shut so that they are in the dark.

All the OP article emphasizes is that schools are seriously under-resourced in general, but especially when it comes to special needs children. In my son's lifetime, I have seen public schools go from having teacher aids on staff who are trained to help special needs children, to having a single teacher deal with a classroom of 30 children including several special needs children. The resources are being stripped from the public system and as a result we have ignorant teachers using ad hoc methods like putting children in bags to silence them.

This is unacceptable. Instead of condoning the actions of authority or coming down on the children, we need to look at the broader scope here. I am frankly appalled at how many people in this thread are coming to the defense of a practice that is almost never practiced anymore and hasn't been since the advent of modern researched approaches on more effective ways to deal with the autistic. We are dealing with a public system that has deteriorating conditions and diminishing resources, and teachers that are increasingly desperate. It's the teachers who are acting out here, not autistic children.

Unfortunately, as money is removed from the public system, ignorance is going to reign supreme, and that includes an increase in people who are going to apologize for the stupidity of teachers and childcare providers instead of looking at the real source of the problem. The Republocrat approach to education in the year 2011 is to cut money wherever possible and let people fend for themselves. Try apologizing for THAT, Josie.
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With all due respect, autism has many degrees. The fact that one has an autistic child does not make one an authority on handling all autistic children.

Aunt Spiker said:
May have to accept it? May have to settle for it?

Why - since when? Since when have parents had no input or say in school happenings, no value and no weight?

Our taxes pay for our schooling facilities and so forth - why should anyone settle for what they do not approve of?

I think that suggestion is tripe. . . I have a lot of sway in my school district - all of us parents do - because we're valued, respected and our children are valued too. We haven't lost our way, here. . . and we would not permit such actions. I know my school district isn't that rock bottom . . . there'd be hell to pay if it was.

There is nothing wrong with setting standards and expecting them to be met.
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To both you and Temporal, respectfully, how would you suggest handling a child who is banging their head against the wall...floor? A 10-12-year-old who is lashing out physically at teachers and students alike? Throwing objects? What restraint do you suggest? None? Let them hurt themselves? Others?

It's easy to cast stones. Now let's see alternatives.

To you both: I honestly mean no disrespect and can only imagine the challenges and heartache of having an autistic child. And, honestly, I can't imagine very well...
 
Aunt Spiker said:
May have to accept it? May have to settle for it?


Why - since when? Since when have parents had no input or say in school happenings, no value and no weight?


Our taxes pay for our schooling facilities and so forth - why should anyone settle for what they do not approve of?
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Eighty Deuce seems to be one of those conservatives who thinks that anything you fail to accomplish single-handed is strictly due to your own personal failings, and that you don't have the right to expect anything from anybody else.

I guess that would make sense if we were living a state of total anarchy or near-anarchy, where survival meant being able to do everything for yourself (and life expectancies were much shorter).
 
The mom did very well in controlling herself and not assaulting the "professional"; not sure I could do the same.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
You think I would be tolerant or supportive of this if I knew it was going to happen before hand? Nope - I would not. There are modes of punishment I don't support at all and involuntary confinement in such an item like a bag or a box is NOT an acceptable form of restraint or punishment regardless of whether or not they're administered to children with or without parental knowledge. There are acceptable means of restraining physically violent or out of control children - club and sack is NOT IT. Being a parent of an autistic child who was prone to outbursts I had to learn what they were.
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So, again, would you be okay with being shown the methods and equipment that a school uses to restrain or a calm an autistic student before you enroll them in that school? I mean it seems clear from all sides that teachers, indeed, have to restrain autistic kids on occasion. Which means that, no matter what, the school is going to use some standard procedures for that. So would you prefer to see those procedures before they go in school or would you rather the faculty kept those to themselves?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
How do you think parents would respond if "when your child is out of control we will place him/her in a gym bag and tie it closed until they calm down" in the rule and guidelines manual?
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If it was my child I would ask why they do it that way, what other options there are, and why they choose not to pursue those options instead.
 
To those parents on this thread that have autistic children, I am not sure that any of us that don't deal with such things can truly understand what choices there are for you on a daily basis, and or, what the child afflicted must be going through as well.

The closest I can come to any kind of understanding is that when my daughter was in her mid teens, she went through a period of depression, and cutting that landed her in residential treatment. And I know that doesn't come close. But I remember one visit when she was at Sheppard Pratt, (a world renown facility) she was locked in an isolation room nude by an adult, male attendant for getting something sharp and managing to cut herself under their care...I went off! And like I said this was a facility designed to treat this disorder.

My heart, and prayers go out to the families of this story, as well as those in here dealing with special needs children.

j-mac
 
samsmart said:
If it was my child I would ask why they do it that way, what other options there are, and why they choose not to pursue those options instead.
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Would you be that calm before or after your kid was tied up in a gym bag?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/parents-angry-after-school-put-autistic-son-in-bag/



My oldest son is mildly autistic - when he was younger we had a lot of issues with the school he attended. As he grew older some of his issues sort of faded - he learned about to be in more control of his self, etc. . . making it easier to teach him and he distrupted the class less.

However frustrating it might have been for the teachers - they did NOT treat him like ****.

If I had come to school at some point and FOUND him in a ****ing bag in a hallway - I'd likely lose my temper. I've been on edge of losing it several times with teachers concerning just how they talked about him . . . I don't think I would have maintained control if they violated his rights, physical self and dignity. I would have beat the **** out of them.

This story INFURIATES me - and more so: the school DEFENDED their actions by saying "bags are used to control . . . they're a gym bag that they can get out of" **** YOU YOU **** - let me stick you in a bag and leave you there and see how you like it you disgusting pigs.

More so: the mother heard that they 'used bags to handle them' and just didn't know 'how' they used the bag - that's bizarre. . .obviously you can NEVER EVER assume that they're doing what you THINK they're doing. You must ask question and lots of them!

I think this is exactly WHY the dissolve of special-needs-only classrooms was horrible. . . regular teachers have 20+ kids and special needs children require extra attention that the average teacher can't provide, doesn't have instruction in . . . I think it sets everyone up for a poor and failing school experience.

As special needs children grew THEN they should be in a regular classroom more IF they can control their selves on their own and with less interaction from the teacher.

I found that my son being shuffled to and from classroom 4 times a day was more disruptive than anything else - and this was so he could have individualized instruction time. At least years ago they would have a small classroom for one-on-one cognitive (etc) related activity to strengthen their skills in school but now they just stick tehse special needs kids who have attention deficit and physical issues in the hallway - with countless others shuffling past all the time (yeah, they're going to focus and learn then) :roll:

Schools are failing miserably to keep up with the growing number of students who have issues.
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If hte kid is that out of control... for whatever reason, then they should not be allowed back into school until a psychologist deams them OK to return.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
Autistic individuals will often act out because they are deeply troubled by having too much incoming stimulus (over-stimulation). Part of the disorder is inability to filter out incoming stimulus - things like sounds, smells, tastes, touches, changes in lighting. Overstimulated autistic individuals often are comforted when there is pressure applied to various parts of the body or to the whole body. This is a well-documented fact and there are a number of devices like the Lycra bag to assist in comforting them. The Lycra bag is also used to treat some spacial and other sensory disorders. Lycra bags are not a punishment - they are a medical intervention for an overstimulated autistic person.

Confining a child in something like a duffel bag does not provide pressure all over the body, does not allow the child to see and does not allow the child to free himself. I would think being put in a duffel bag for an hour would frighten anyone - autistic or not.

The teachers and aides should have understood that firm pressure - not confinement - is the therapeutic component of the Lycra bag intervention and been able to deduce that just stuffing the kid into any old bag was inappropriate.
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Then shouldn't the parent have brought a lycra bag for the school to use just in case the child is feeling overstimulated? I know if a child needed regular medication then the parents would make sure the child has their medication with them or bring the medication and let a nurse or some other adult administer the child's medication. As far as I know those teachers just stuffed the kid in a duffel bag because they felt that a duffel bag is better than no bag at all. People improvise all the time when they do not have an exact tool or an exact item.
 
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