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Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

Even if this bag were the "proper" lycra one, or whatever, as a parent, I want to know that putting my kid in this bag is or is not an option for the teachers. In other words, I don't want to show up to school surprised to find my kid in a bag, even the lycra bag. That's the issue, here. As a parent, I should be able to tell the teachers, no, don't put my kid in a bag, just call me, and I'll come get him.

We talk about teachers be ill equipped to deal with these sorts of things. Um. What if, as a private sector worker, I told my boss I was ill equipped to do my job? What would happen, do you think? I mean, they have special education teachers...these are the so called pros for this sort of thing. And they resorted to putting that kind into, as described by the article, a gym bag? Sorry, but seeing as getting a refund for these obviously unwanted "services" is not in the cards for the parents, then, you're god damn right some heads should roll.

The problem with your analogy is that teachers are hired with the required training, the government moves the goal posts, and no money follows to retrain and certify teachers to meet these requirements. Special education has changed drastically in the last 5 years alone, and it's incredibly hard to keep up with. Legislation has been passed that essentially tells a school system that they have to take and "teach" any child who isn't a physical threat...and even then it takes months of evaluations and cooperative assessments to make that determination.

Children with disorders or syndromes that affect their behavior are especially challenging. There are often not enough staff members to provide these children with the discipline and attention they need to avoid distractions and acting out behavior. Couple that with the fact that autism/aspergers is still a relatively new disorder that is still being investigated and evaluated, and you have a triple whammy.

Before jumping to conclusions here we need more information. Did the parent discuss the methods that the school would/could utilize to handle the child during the IEP sessions? Was this method listed as an option on the IEP program? Did the parent inquire as to what methods might be used at any point in time? Was this a random decision on the part of the teacher, made with no knowledge of the use of a restraint device or "therapy bag"? Did the method work without traumatizing the child?

I've been in SE classrooms, I've been integrated classrooms, I've spent a LOT of time talking to SE/integration teachers. I've observed the challenges these teachers and assistants face, and I've seen first hand how little support the teachers/staff receive from parents of these children. In one class geared towards 3-5 year olds, many of the SE children were not potty trained. Parents would drop their children off in regular underwear with no change of clothes and no pull-ups/diapers, only to come in RAGING at the end of the day when the child was picked up wearing a school-provided diaper and no bottoms. I saw parents drop of children with feeding tubes that were partially detached or dirty, I saw parents pick up their children and completely ignore them. I saw a lot of good, too, but I think attacking the entire SE system is ridiculous. They're fighting an uphill battle with no reinforcements.
 
The article is not clear as to what type of bag it was.

The one I read said the mother knew they used the bag for him to roll around on the balls, but she didn't know that they put kids IN the bag.
 
If the child is that disruptive, he goes out of the classroom and to the principals office, or to another room where someone has to watch him so he doesn't hurt himself. I don't see that in this case... and while your example is an extreme one, I cannot see any... let me stress again... any circumstance in which a school, without my permission or knowledge before the fact, puts my 9 year old no matter how disruptive, in a lycra bag. By the way, there was kid (when I still went to grade school) who was just like that. His name was Marc Sanchez, and we were in 5th grade. He was corrected a few times, threw his tantrum, was removed from the class and sat either in the nurses office, or the principals office quite often. If he calmed down (sometimes he did) he stayed in the classroom and participated. The teacher (Mrs. Kidder) knew how to control children, and knew how to teach you see.

What I see as this lycra bag thing is akin to locking a kid in a closet. It's stupid, it's a cop out and it enforces the wrong behavior and lets the teacher off without having to deal with children. News flash - kids act up! Kids are hyper - they are disruptive... it's all part of being a child. Even when kids are extreme in their behavior, tying them in a lycra bag and not dealing with their behavior issues shows how ill prepared and clueless this particular school system is.

You've never seen an autistic kid act up. They don't "go to the principal's office". What happens to autistic kids in not just a normal part of growing up. It's anything but.
 
The one I read said the mother knew they used the bag for him to roll around on the balls, but she didn't know that they put kids IN the bag.

It's certainly possible that it was a legit, or at least an acceptable type of bag. It's tough for me to tell based upon the articles.
 
........If the child is that disruptive, he goes out of the classroom and to the principals office, or to another room where someone has to watch him so he doesn't hurt himself. I don't see that in this case... and while your example is an extreme one, I cannot see any... let me stress again... any circumstance in which a school, without my permission or knowledge before the fact, puts my 9 year old no matter how disruptive, in a lycra bag ..............

And if this is the prescribed procedure in that school system, and you failed to read the literature, or ask questions and just "assumed", or know the possible actions yet choose "not to give your permission", then for the sake of the rest of the kids, you may have to put your child in a private school where you can decide what you approve of, and then you pay for it.
 
No, a lone teacher in a classroom full of kids shouldn't have to attempt to subdue an out of control child for an hour until the parent gets there. The child should be taken immediately out of the classroom so the other kids can learn.

That's another pat answer on the opposite extreme though. Removing a kid isn't always the only way, or best way, to deal with behavior problems, especially if the kid's just acting up to get out of school. And what if he's already in a special ed class?
 
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That's another pat answer on the opposite extreme though. Removing a kid isn't always the only way, or best way, to deal with behavior problems, especially if the kid's just acting up to get out of school. And what if he's already in a special ed class?

As I said, if a child is out of control, he should be removed from the classroom. I did not say the child should be removed for any behavior problem.

Sincerely,

A teacher :)
 
You've never seen an autistic kid act up. They don't "go to the principal's office". What happens to autistic kids in not just a normal part of growing up. It's anything but.

Well put, and I am disappointed with a few who keep saying how this is "unacceptable", but then do not grasp the nature of the problem, or seem to think that everyone else must be put out to the contentment of how the parent of the needs-child wants their child controlled in these difficult situations.

I have seen the process "properly" but terribly mishandled before, where a special needs child had a "moment" and during such, tapped a fellow male classmate on the butt. No harm whatsoever. Except that the unsolicited touching of a butt, under any circumstance, was a sexual assault, and school policy mandated it be turned over to the police. The determination is that the touched student is taken aside and asked "did you want him to touch your butt" ? Which will only get one answer always. 10 year old boys. One a special needs child. Two police then have to take a 10 year old into custody. Clearly stated "no tolerance" school policy. :roll:

We have this condemnation of "bag therapy". And this "not without my permission" posture. To those who have embraced such, trust that it can get a lot worse real quick, whether you approve or not.
 
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Yes - us parents know it can be difficult, exhausting and trying. But there is a line and I feel this crossed that line.



You know what: if a PARENT shoved their kid in a bag because they couldn't handle them I'd call CPS and consider it abuse and neglect. There's no excusing this approach ot teaching or parenting. If a PET was

Body Sox

http://iuhealth.org/university/orth...rehabilitation-services/occupational-therapy/ <-- Sensory integration section. Showing its a valid therapy.

again, it depends on the specifics, however, consult your local OT expert.

Gym bags though, do not serve this purpose.
 
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I agree that the bag is pretty extreme. I have never seen that and I've seen a lot of autistic kids.

I've seen more than you have, and my son is autistic. Your apologism for this kind of approach sickens me, Josie. For once could you get a reality check and not side with authority? I know you love to so much, but in this case you're wrong. How hard would it have been to separate the autistic student and put him in a different room, even alone if necessary, to cool down? How hard would it be to have an extra staff member on hand to be with him, and help him to express what the problem is? This is what virtually every district does in modern America.

Autistic children don't act out for no reason, and it's not "acting out" but trying to express a problem in a dysfunctional way. The fact that it's being framed as "acting out" suggests that rules are being broken in a delinquent way. That's now how autistic children operate. If they are a danger to others then of course restraint is sometimes necessary, but "bag therapy" is not a therapy in the modern world. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet; a bag by any other name is still a BAG being put over a kid and sealed shut so that they are in the dark.

All the OP article emphasizes is that schools are seriously under-resourced in general, but especially when it comes to special needs children. In my son's lifetime, I have seen public schools go from having teacher aids on staff who are trained to help special needs children, to having a single teacher deal with a classroom of 30 children including several special needs children. The resources are being stripped from the public system and as a result we have ignorant teachers using ad hoc methods like putting children in bags to silence them.

This is unacceptable. Instead of condoning the actions of authority or coming down on the children, we need to look at the broader scope here. I am frankly appalled at how many people in this thread are coming to the defense of a practice that is almost never practiced anymore and hasn't been since the advent of modern researched approaches on more effective ways to deal with the autistic. We are dealing with a public system that has deteriorating conditions and diminishing resources, and teachers that are increasingly desperate. It's the teachers who are acting out here, not autistic children.

Unfortunately, as money is removed from the public system, ignorance is going to reign supreme, and that includes an increase in people who are going to apologize for the stupidity of teachers and childcare providers instead of looking at the real source of the problem. The Republocrat approach to education in the year 2011 is to cut money wherever possible and let people fend for themselves. Try apologizing for THAT, Josie.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/parents-angry-after-school-put-autistic-son-in-bag/



My oldest son is mildly autistic - when he was younger we had a lot of issues with the school he attended. As he grew older some of his issues sort of faded - he learned about to be in more control of his self, etc. . . making it easier to teach him and he distrupted the class less.

However frustrating it might have been for the teachers - they did NOT treat him like ****.

If I had come to school at some point and FOUND him in a ****ing bag in a hallway - I'd likely lose my temper. I've been on edge of losing it several times with teachers concerning just how they talked about him . . . I don't think I would have maintained control if they violated his rights, physical self and dignity. I would have beat the **** out of them.

This story INFURIATES me - and more so: the school DEFENDED their actions by saying "bags are used to control . . . they're a gym bag that they can get out of" **** YOU YOU **** - let me stick you in a bag and leave you there and see how you like it you disgusting pigs.

More so: the mother heard that they 'used bags to handle them' and just didn't know 'how' they used the bag - that's bizarre. . .obviously you can NEVER EVER assume that they're doing what you THINK they're doing. You must ask question and lots of them!

I think this is exactly WHY the dissolve of special-needs-only classrooms was horrible. . . regular teachers have 20+ kids and special needs children require extra attention that the average teacher can't provide, doesn't have instruction in . . . I think it sets everyone up for a poor and failing school experience.

As special needs children grew THEN they should be in a regular classroom more IF they can control their selves on their own and with less interaction from the teacher.

I found that my son being shuffled to and from classroom 4 times a day was more disruptive than anything else - and this was so he could have individualized instruction time. At least years ago they would have a small classroom for one-on-one cognitive (etc) related activity to strengthen their skills in school but now they just stick tehse special needs kids who have attention deficit and physical issues in the hallway - with countless others shuffling past all the time (yeah, they're going to focus and learn then) :roll:

Schools are failing miserably to keep up with the growing number of students who have issues.

This issue is one that is close to my heart, since my son's case is the one that went to the Texas Supreme Court, which forced the Houston Independent School District to recognize autism as a disability. My son is autistic (early infantile autism), and you want to know what his special education teacher did to "treat" him? Put Tabasco sauce in his mouth. BTW, she wasn't a teacher for very long after that.
 
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Parents get angry about anything these days... :roll:



:mrgreen:


Really though, that is pretty terrible.
 
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I've seen more than you have, and my son is autistic. Your apologism for this kind of approach sickens me, Josie. For once could you get a reality check and not side with authority? I know you love to so much, but in this case you're wrong. How hard would it have been to separate the autistic student and put him in a different room, even alone if necessary, to cool down? How hard would it be to have an extra staff member on hand to be with him, and help him to express what the problem is? This is what virtually every district does in modern America.

Where on earth is this coming from? I agree with you.

Autistic children don't act out for no reason, and it's not "acting out" but trying to express a problem in a dysfunctional way. The fact that it's being framed as "acting out" suggests that rules are being broken in a delinquent way. That's now how autistic children operate. If they are a danger to others then of course restraint is sometimes necessary, but "bag therapy" is not a therapy in the modern world. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet; a bag by any other name is still a BAG being put over a kid and sealed shut so that they are in the dark.

Well, it's obviously used in the modern world because there are several references to it being used in professional therapy sessions.

As I said, it's very extreme and it's something I've never seen before. I'm no expert in autism or it's therapies, but this is one form of therapy that some use.

I'm not really sure why your anger is being directed at me...
 
I've seen more than you have, and my son is autistic. Your apologism for this kind of approach sickens me, Josie. For once could you get a reality check and not side with authority? ................................. Try apologizing for THAT, Josie.

Well, aren't we special !! I can't speak for Josie, but I have certainly favored the views of that poster over yours. And I may, or may not be, the parent of a special needs child. I think it a bit too much "heart on my sleeve" to claim such were it the case, and then pontificate from that soapbox.

Like it or not, there are practical restrictions in the public domain. The school system has its protocols and procedures, and it has its budgets. That other taxpayers are somehow obligated to pick up the tab to provide everyone's version of acceptable care of special needs students is not practical. That may not validate this type of therapy, but we BOTH know that in the autism-aspergers arena some children can be prone to violent and harming episodes. Hopefully your child is not, and never will be, one of those such afflicted. But it is for the school board to decide the resources it will allocate. Local citizens need to influence those folks, but again, you are not owed, nor is the school system obligated, to provide you with all the resources you want. They are not obligated to provide you with even what you feel is a minimum. You may have to choose other means of care/education.

We don't know near enough from what could be a very incomplete news story. But even then, I think Josie has been very fair in their views.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/parents-angry-after-school-put-autistic-son-in-bag/



My oldest son is mildly autistic - when he was younger we had a lot of issues with the school he attended. As he grew older some of his issues sort of faded - he learned about to be in more control of his self, etc. . . making it easier to teach him and he distrupted the class less.

However frustrating it might have been for the teachers - they did NOT treat him like ****.

If I had come to school at some point and FOUND him in a ****ing bag in a hallway - I'd likely lose my temper. I've been on edge of losing it several times with teachers concerning just how they talked about him . . . I don't think I would have maintained control if they violated his rights, physical self and dignity. I would have beat the **** out of them.

This story INFURIATES me - and more so: the school DEFENDED their actions by saying "bags are used to control . . . they're a gym bag that they can get out of" **** YOU YOU **** - let me stick you in a bag and leave you there and see how you like it you disgusting pigs.

More so: the mother heard that they 'used bags to handle them' and just didn't know 'how' they used the bag - that's bizarre. . .obviously you can NEVER EVER assume that they're doing what you THINK they're doing. You must ask question and lots of them!

I think this is exactly WHY the dissolve of special-needs-only classrooms was horrible. . . regular teachers have 20+ kids and special needs children require extra attention that the average teacher can't provide, doesn't have instruction in . . . I think it sets everyone up for a poor and failing school experience.

As special needs children grew THEN they should be in a regular classroom more IF they can control their selves on their own and with less interaction from the teacher.

I found that my son being shuffled to and from classroom 4 times a day was more disruptive than anything else - and this was so he could have individualized instruction time. At least years ago they would have a small classroom for one-on-one cognitive (etc) related activity to strengthen their skills in school but now they just stick tehse special needs kids who have attention deficit and physical issues in the hallway - with countless others shuffling past all the time (yeah, they're going to focus and learn then) :roll:

Schools are failing miserably to keep up with the growing number of students who have issues.

I haven't followed the rest of this thread.

But would you be up in arms as a parent if the school showed you the techniques they used on autistic children when you enroll them in the school so no parent is surprised by the techniques used when they see them?
 
Teachers are to teach. Parents are to parent. Teachers who teach autistic children should be aware of every situation and how to handle it. Putting a kid in a bag is not acceptable.

When my kid started school, he came home with a permission slip from the school that I was to sign that they could perform corporal punishment on him if he "acted up". I x'd out all of it and wrote on the back "if you touch my kid, I'll come touch you. And you don't want that. Trust me. If he "acts up", then I will handle it. Me. The parent. YOU handle teaching and leave the punishment to ME."

No teacher has the right to put their hands on any kid. That is not their job. Especially autistic children or special needs children, etc. NO CHILD should be at the mercy of a teacher whose job is to TEACH.
 
Teachers are to teach. Parents are to parent. Teachers who teach autistic children should be aware of every situation and how to handle it. Putting a kid in a bag is not acceptable.

When my kid started school, he came home with a permission slip from the school that I was to sign that they could perform corporal punishment on him if he "acted up". I x'd out all of it and wrote on the back "if you touch my kid, I'll come touch you. And you don't want that. Trust me. If he "acts up", then I will handle it. Me. The parent. YOU handle teaching and leave the punishment to ME."

No teacher has the right to put their hands on any kid. That is not their job. Especially autistic children or special needs children, etc. NO CHILD should be at the mercy of a teacher whose job is to TEACH.

Fine. They throw your kid out of school then. They (we) are not obligated to provide you with anything special. Its nice when such is available, but you are not owed such.
 
I haven't followed the rest of this thread.

But would you be up in arms as a parent if the school showed you the techniques they used on autistic children when you enroll them in the school so no parent is surprised by the techniques used when they see them?

You think I would be tolerant or supportive of this if I knew it was going to happen before hand?

Nope - I would not. There are modes of punishment I don't support at all and involuntary confinement in such an item like a bag or a box is NOT an acceptable form of restraint or punishment regardless of whether or not they're administered to children with or without parental knowledge.

There are acceptable means of restraining physically violent or out of control children - club and sack is NOT IT. Being a parent of an autistic child who was prone to outbursts I had to learn what they were.
 
One of my kids has aspergers and my wife is a special ed teacher who routinely deals with autistic children and one thing should be known to all.

Often autistic children have sensory issues and can easily become over or understimulated (each kid is unique in this area). Putting children in a bag is actually a form of therapy.

So lets not rush to judgement about this.

However, if the school did something like this without the parents knowledge and consent, this is against federal regulations and the IEP process. So its a huge no-no and that teacher's certification should be looked at very closely.
It sounds like someone put the child into the wrong sort o bag as the mother knew Lycra bags are a form of therapeutic intervention for an autistic child experiencing sensory overload, but she states she found her child in something more like a gym bag than the therapeutic bag and that the aide had trouble freeing the child from the bag. If someone put a 9 yo in a duffel bag some heads need to roll.

The therapeutic bags are made of Lycra and spandex, have velcro closure so the child can get out and are 'see-thru'.
Lycra Spacial Body Bag - Autistic OT Autism Products Autism Swing Body Sock, Silly Sack DJ movie screen
 
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Fine. They throw your kid out of school then. They (we) are not obligated to provide you with anything special. Its nice when such is available, but you are not owed such.

Fine. Let them throw him out but it better be a verbal throwing. Touch my kid, I touch them.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/parents-angry-after-school-put-autistic-son-in-bag/



My oldest son is mildly autistic - when he was younger we had a lot of issues with the school he attended. As he grew older some of his issues sort of faded - he learned about to be in more control of his self, etc. . . making it easier to teach him and he distrupted the class less.

However frustrating it might have been for the teachers - they did NOT treat him like ****.

If I had come to school at some point and FOUND him in a ****ing bag in a hallway - I'd likely lose my temper. I've been on edge of losing it several times with teachers concerning just how they talked about him . . . I don't think I would have maintained control if they violated his rights, physical self and dignity. I would have beat the **** out of them.

This story INFURIATES me - and more so: the school DEFENDED their actions by saying "bags are used to control . . . they're a gym bag that they can get out of" **** YOU YOU **** - let me stick you in a bag and leave you there and see how you like it you disgusting pigs.

More so: the mother heard that they 'used bags to handle them' and just didn't know 'how' they used the bag - that's bizarre. . .obviously you can NEVER EVER assume that they're doing what you THINK they're doing. You must ask question and lots of them!

I think this is exactly WHY the dissolve of special-needs-only classrooms was horrible. . . regular teachers have 20+ kids and special needs children require extra attention that the average teacher can't provide, doesn't have instruction in . . . I think it sets everyone up for a poor and failing school experience.

As special needs children grew THEN they should be in a regular classroom more IF they can control their selves on their own and with less interaction from the teacher.

I found that my son being shuffled to and from classroom 4 times a day was more disruptive than anything else - and this was so he could have individualized instruction time. At least years ago they would have a small classroom for one-on-one cognitive (etc) related activity to strengthen their skills in school but now they just stick tehse special needs kids who have attention deficit and physical issues in the hallway - with countless others shuffling past all the time (yeah, they're going to focus and learn then) :roll:

Schools are failing miserably to keep up with the growing number of students who have issues.
If putting autistic kids in a bag is how you deal with them then what is the big deal?Oh no they used the wrong type of bag not like the one in the picture, oh ****.
 
If putting autistic kids in a bag is how you deal with them then what is the big deal?Oh no they used the wrong type of bag not like the one in the picture, oh ****.

It could be a big deal. I have no idea. Perhaps part of the accepted therapy is for the kid to be able to see. Perhaps the bag does the same thing as noted by the contraption noted earlier that's it's suppose to be a feeling of confinement which would happen with the lycra bags.

But it would seem that indeed some are upset over the idea of bag therapy, accepted practice or not.
 
It could be a big deal. I have no idea. Perhaps part of the accepted therapy is for the kid to be able to see. Perhaps the bag does the same thing as noted by the contraption noted earlier that's it's suppose to be a feeling of confinement which would happen with the lycra bags.

But it would seem that indeed some are upset over the idea of bag therapy, accepted practice or not.

I suspect that they didn't have exactly the type of bag that was needed and went for the next best thing. I do not think it was a hey lets stick this dumb ass dee dee dee in a sack for our own personal amusement.
 
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If putting autistic kids in a bag is how you deal with them then what is the big deal?Oh no they used the wrong type of bag not like the one in the picture, oh ****.

That makes a difference to you?
I don't believe in confining anyone like that as part of a punishment or with any type of a negative - I don't care what 'theraputic' benefits it brings in certain settings.

I see some serious concerns here beyond the issue with the school that's happening.

I'll refer to my son for these as I don't know how much they apply to others.

Our son even to this day isn't always able to decide for himself the context in which something happens and how he's going to take it - he must be told or it has to be suggested. A little less now than before because he's learned a lot now that he's a teen . . . but when he was a child in every situation we had to explain to him our actions: the reasons for everything. There was little to no context for him to draw from - in his mind he made little connection to previous experiences.

So - when he was younger: if I gave him permission to do something - then he would assume he always had that permission. It was not natural for him to draw from context why it was ok now (say: at home) VS not being ok in public (say: at school). And telling the difference a few times wasn't enough - such things had to be repeated for years.

Applying that to this situation: even if it was a therapy session with a theraputic bag - he would not have understood why he couldn't play with any bag at all. This would have included plastic bags of all sizes, trash bags, sleeping bags - any sort of bag in his mind would have been considered the same.

This is how my son developed a paranoid deep rooted fear of all flying creatures - he was stung by a wasp. To him - for 7 years or so - all flying creatures were going to sting him. He was petrified of EVERYTHING.

Just how do you think he responded whenever we went outside and he saw anything flying? Moths, flies, ladybugs, airplanes, helicopter, beetles, birds.

If putting him into a bag was associated with being punished or used as a negative how do you think he views other bags?

Is this how they deal with 'normal' children who are not special needs? No freaking way - obviously - because this is ONLY for the special needs kids and no one else.

How do you think parents would respond if "when your child is out of control we will place him/her in a gym bag and tie it closed until they calm down" in the rule and guidelines manual?
 
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