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Thread: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

  1. #51
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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Even if this bag were the "proper" lycra one, or whatever, as a parent, I want to know that putting my kid in this bag is or is not an option for the teachers. In other words, I don't want to show up to school surprised to find my kid in a bag, even the lycra bag. That's the issue, here. As a parent, I should be able to tell the teachers, no, don't put my kid in a bag, just call me, and I'll come get him.

    We talk about teachers be ill equipped to deal with these sorts of things. Um. What if, as a private sector worker, I told my boss I was ill equipped to do my job? What would happen, do you think? I mean, they have special education teachers...these are the so called pros for this sort of thing. And they resorted to putting that kind into, as described by the article, a gym bag? Sorry, but seeing as getting a refund for these obviously unwanted "services" is not in the cards for the parents, then, you're god damn right some heads should roll.
    The problem with your analogy is that teachers are hired with the required training, the government moves the goal posts, and no money follows to retrain and certify teachers to meet these requirements. Special education has changed drastically in the last 5 years alone, and it's incredibly hard to keep up with. Legislation has been passed that essentially tells a school system that they have to take and "teach" any child who isn't a physical threat...and even then it takes months of evaluations and cooperative assessments to make that determination.

    Children with disorders or syndromes that affect their behavior are especially challenging. There are often not enough staff members to provide these children with the discipline and attention they need to avoid distractions and acting out behavior. Couple that with the fact that autism/aspergers is still a relatively new disorder that is still being investigated and evaluated, and you have a triple whammy.

    Before jumping to conclusions here we need more information. Did the parent discuss the methods that the school would/could utilize to handle the child during the IEP sessions? Was this method listed as an option on the IEP program? Did the parent inquire as to what methods might be used at any point in time? Was this a random decision on the part of the teacher, made with no knowledge of the use of a restraint device or "therapy bag"? Did the method work without traumatizing the child?

    I've been in SE classrooms, I've been integrated classrooms, I've spent a LOT of time talking to SE/integration teachers. I've observed the challenges these teachers and assistants face, and I've seen first hand how little support the teachers/staff receive from parents of these children. In one class geared towards 3-5 year olds, many of the SE children were not potty trained. Parents would drop their children off in regular underwear with no change of clothes and no pull-ups/diapers, only to come in RAGING at the end of the day when the child was picked up wearing a school-provided diaper and no bottoms. I saw parents drop of children with feeding tubes that were partially detached or dirty, I saw parents pick up their children and completely ignore them. I saw a lot of good, too, but I think attacking the entire SE system is ridiculous. They're fighting an uphill battle with no reinforcements.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    The article is not clear as to what type of bag it was.
    The one I read said the mother knew they used the bag for him to roll around on the balls, but she didn't know that they put kids IN the bag.


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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If the child is that disruptive, he goes out of the classroom and to the principals office, or to another room where someone has to watch him so he doesn't hurt himself. I don't see that in this case... and while your example is an extreme one, I cannot see any... let me stress again... any circumstance in which a school, without my permission or knowledge before the fact, puts my 9 year old no matter how disruptive, in a lycra bag. By the way, there was kid (when I still went to grade school) who was just like that. His name was Marc Sanchez, and we were in 5th grade. He was corrected a few times, threw his tantrum, was removed from the class and sat either in the nurses office, or the principals office quite often. If he calmed down (sometimes he did) he stayed in the classroom and participated. The teacher (Mrs. Kidder) knew how to control children, and knew how to teach you see.

    What I see as this lycra bag thing is akin to locking a kid in a closet. It's stupid, it's a cop out and it enforces the wrong behavior and lets the teacher off without having to deal with children. News flash - kids act up! Kids are hyper - they are disruptive... it's all part of being a child. Even when kids are extreme in their behavior, tying them in a lycra bag and not dealing with their behavior issues shows how ill prepared and clueless this particular school system is.
    You've never seen an autistic kid act up. They don't "go to the principal's office". What happens to autistic kids in not just a normal part of growing up. It's anything but.

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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    The one I read said the mother knew they used the bag for him to roll around on the balls, but she didn't know that they put kids IN the bag.
    It's certainly possible that it was a legit, or at least an acceptable type of bag. It's tough for me to tell based upon the articles.

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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    ........If the child is that disruptive, he goes out of the classroom and to the principals office, or to another room where someone has to watch him so he doesn't hurt himself. I don't see that in this case... and while your example is an extreme one, I cannot see any... let me stress again... any circumstance in which a school, without my permission or knowledge before the fact, puts my 9 year old no matter how disruptive, in a lycra bag ..............
    And if this is the prescribed procedure in that school system, and you failed to read the literature, or ask questions and just "assumed", or know the possible actions yet choose "not to give your permission", then for the sake of the rest of the kids, you may have to put your child in a private school where you can decide what you approve of, and then you pay for it.

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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    No, a lone teacher in a classroom full of kids shouldn't have to attempt to subdue an out of control child for an hour until the parent gets there. The child should be taken immediately out of the classroom so the other kids can learn.
    That's another pat answer on the opposite extreme though. Removing a kid isn't always the only way, or best way, to deal with behavior problems, especially if the kid's just acting up to get out of school. And what if he's already in a special ed class?
    Last edited by misterman; 12-24-11 at 05:57 PM.
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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    That's another pat answer on the opposite extreme though. Removing a kid isn't always the only way, or best way, to deal with behavior problems, especially if the kid's just acting up to get out of school. And what if he's already in a special ed class?
    As I said, if a child is out of control, he should be removed from the classroom. I did not say the child should be removed for any behavior problem.

    Sincerely,

    A teacher


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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You've never seen an autistic kid act up. They don't "go to the principal's office". What happens to autistic kids in not just a normal part of growing up. It's anything but.
    Well put, and I am disappointed with a few who keep saying how this is "unacceptable", but then do not grasp the nature of the problem, or seem to think that everyone else must be put out to the contentment of how the parent of the needs-child wants their child controlled in these difficult situations.

    I have seen the process "properly" but terribly mishandled before, where a special needs child had a "moment" and during such, tapped a fellow male classmate on the butt. No harm whatsoever. Except that the unsolicited touching of a butt, under any circumstance, was a sexual assault, and school policy mandated it be turned over to the police. The determination is that the touched student is taken aside and asked "did you want him to touch your butt" ? Which will only get one answer always. 10 year old boys. One a special needs child. Two police then have to take a 10 year old into custody. Clearly stated "no tolerance" school policy.

    We have this condemnation of "bag therapy". And this "not without my permission" posture. To those who have embraced such, trust that it can get a lot worse real quick, whether you approve or not.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 12-24-11 at 06:02 PM.

  9. #59
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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yes - us parents know it can be difficult, exhausting and trying. But there is a line and I feel this crossed that line.



    You know what: if a PARENT shoved their kid in a bag because they couldn't handle them I'd call CPS and consider it abuse and neglect. There's no excusing this approach ot teaching or parenting. If a PET was
    Body Sox

    http://iuhealth.org/university/ortho...ional-therapy/ <-- Sensory integration section. Showing its a valid therapy.

    again, it depends on the specifics, however, consult your local OT expert.

    Gym bags though, do not serve this purpose.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 12-24-11 at 06:23 PM.

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    Re: Parents Angry After School Put Autistic Son in Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    I agree that the bag is pretty extreme. I have never seen that and I've seen a lot of autistic kids.
    I've seen more than you have, and my son is autistic. Your apologism for this kind of approach sickens me, Josie. For once could you get a reality check and not side with authority? I know you love to so much, but in this case you're wrong. How hard would it have been to separate the autistic student and put him in a different room, even alone if necessary, to cool down? How hard would it be to have an extra staff member on hand to be with him, and help him to express what the problem is? This is what virtually every district does in modern America.

    Autistic children don't act out for no reason, and it's not "acting out" but trying to express a problem in a dysfunctional way. The fact that it's being framed as "acting out" suggests that rules are being broken in a delinquent way. That's now how autistic children operate. If they are a danger to others then of course restraint is sometimes necessary, but "bag therapy" is not a therapy in the modern world. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet; a bag by any other name is still a BAG being put over a kid and sealed shut so that they are in the dark.

    All the OP article emphasizes is that schools are seriously under-resourced in general, but especially when it comes to special needs children. In my son's lifetime, I have seen public schools go from having teacher aids on staff who are trained to help special needs children, to having a single teacher deal with a classroom of 30 children including several special needs children. The resources are being stripped from the public system and as a result we have ignorant teachers using ad hoc methods like putting children in bags to silence them.

    This is unacceptable. Instead of condoning the actions of authority or coming down on the children, we need to look at the broader scope here. I am frankly appalled at how many people in this thread are coming to the defense of a practice that is almost never practiced anymore and hasn't been since the advent of modern researched approaches on more effective ways to deal with the autistic. We are dealing with a public system that has deteriorating conditions and diminishing resources, and teachers that are increasingly desperate. It's the teachers who are acting out here, not autistic children.

    Unfortunately, as money is removed from the public system, ignorance is going to reign supreme, and that includes an increase in people who are going to apologize for the stupidity of teachers and childcare providers instead of looking at the real source of the problem. The Republocrat approach to education in the year 2011 is to cut money wherever possible and let people fend for themselves. Try apologizing for THAT, Josie.

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