• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,256
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
House Republican leaders have decided to accept a short-term extension of the payroll tax cut, sources told ABC News this afternoon, staving off a hike in taxes just nine days before a payroll tax break for 160 million Americans expires.

I wouldn't call that caving. I would say that, for a change, they are being reasonable.

Article is here.
 
I wouldn't call that caving. I would say that, for a change, they are being reasonable.

Article is here.

I think everyone knew this would happen. They backed themselves into a corner that had no exit.

Major Garrett wrote an article that predicted they would accept the 2 month deal in exchange for the Senate appointing a conference committee to iron out the differences.

I'm not sure Boehner is cut out to be Speaker of the House.
 
I don't know about a corner but the House had some really stupid crap in their bill. I think if the Senate had entered conference this/next week a compromise would have been reached for a 12 month extension. I mean really, who would accept drug testing UI benefits, SS numbers for IA children and such. Both bills included the doc fix, very similar UI extensions, Keystone decision and similar funding means which would be the foundation for a compromise by both houses.
 
I think everyone knew this would happen. They backed themselves into a corner that had no exit.

Major Garrett wrote an article that predicted they would accept the 2 month deal in exchange for the Senate appointing a conference committee to iron out the differences.

I'm not sure Boehner is cut out to be Speaker of the House.

i think you are right about boehner.
 
When the Wall Street Jurnal took down their pants and publicly spanked their bare bottoms in front of the entire nation, you could see this coming.
 
Let's not count our chickens, though. This still requires Boehner to herd his cats.

Other than that, I think Boehner will be replaced as Speaker before the '12 elections, and not a moment too soon.
 
Let's not count our chickens, though. This still requires Boehner to herd his cats.

Other than that, I think Boehner will be replaced as Speaker before the '12 elections, and not a moment too soon.

Then he can team up with Glenn Beck and Tammy Faye, and they can all have a crying party. :mrgreen:
 
What I think is most interesting about this whole thing is that Obama has now forever turned the payroll tax into just another general fund tax that can be manipulated as political circumstances dictate. His antics over the last couple days virtually guarantee this tax "holiday" will never end. Every year it will be an issue because the next election is always around the corner. And with that, he has basically destroyed SS as we know it. The Dems surely realize this, but are powerless to stop it because they have all sold their souls for Obama's re-election in 2012. The GOP may have lost this battle, but Obama and the Dems have handed them a major victory in the war over entitlement reform.
 
What I think is most interesting about this whole thing is that Obama has now forever turned the payroll tax into just another general fund tax that can be manipulated as political circumstances dictate. His antics over the last couple days virtually guarantee this tax "holiday" will never end. Every year it will be an issue because the next election is always around the corner. And with that, he has basically destroyed SS as we know it. The Dems surely realize this, but are powerless to stop it because they have all sold their souls for Obama's re-election in 2012. The GOP may have lost this battle, but Obama and the Dems have handed them a major victory in the war over entitlement reform.

This is precisely the reason I hope BHO wins in 2012. As all these policies 'mature' in the next 3-4 years and the never ending ‘news’ cycle harp on the ensuing ‘end of days’ the luster of the Democrat party will fade and make 2016 REALLY interesting.
 
I'm not sure Boehner is cut out to be Speaker of the House.
Of course we knew this coming out of the 2010 election and yet John Boehner received no competition for the position. In 2012, as important as it is for Republicans to gain control of both chambers, of equal importance is the election of caucus leadership that rejects the business-as-usual establishment types like Mitch McConnell and Boehner and replaces them with leadership from the base/Tea Party. The election of a Republican president makes that even more integral to the success of conservatism in Washington.
 
I think everyone knew this would happen. They backed themselves into a corner that had no exit.

Major Garrett wrote an article that predicted they would accept the 2 month deal in exchange for the Senate appointing a conference committee to iron out the differences.

I'm not sure Boehner is cut out to be Speaker of the House.

Yes, but possibly for reasons other than what is being said.

What if Boehner expected to have to "cave" ? That he knew this ploy would change nothing now ? What was gained, or lost ? What was the plan then ?

First off, nothing is lost. Folks will not be voting one party or the other in November based on the last 48 hours. It will be forgotten long before then. For sure, any angst over this tax cut will come up again, with a whole new life, in two months. However both sides posture then, play chicken then, draw the ire of the American people then, Boehner can say "unfortunately, this is because the Dems kicked the can in December. The House Republicans wanted to avert this mess ". Will it be worth any political leverage then ? I think a bit. What is certain is that none was lost now.
 
Yes, but possibly for reasons other than what is being said.

What if Boehner expected to have to "cave" ? That he knew this ploy would change nothing now ? What was gained, or lost ? What was the plan then ?

First off, nothing is lost. Folks will not be voting one party or the other in November based on the last 48 hours. It will be forgotten long before then. For sure, any angst over this tax cut will come up again, with a whole new life, in two months. However both sides posture then, play chicken then, draw the ire of the American people then, Boehner can say "unfortunately, this is because the Dems kicked the can in December. The House Republicans wanted to avert this mess ". Will it be worth any political leverage then ? I think a bit. What is certain is that none was lost now.

You're dreaming. Boehner looks like the world's biggest asshole. He's getting reamed by his own party, and it just adds to the boiling rage so many Americans are feeling over this political brinksmanship.
 
You're dreaming. Boehner looks like the world's biggest asshole. He's getting reamed by his own party, and it just adds to the boiling rage so many Americans are feeling over this political brinksmanship.

This is a non event in two days. The only way it was going to count was if folks actually had it impact their early-January wages. Two months from now I see this providing some extra cover for the House GOP. It does nothing for the Dems beyond whatever yuk-yuk they get tomorrow. That's it.

I dream about pretty girls, btw ;)
 
This is a non event in two days. The only way it was going to count was if folks actually had it impact their early-January wages. Two months from now I see this providing some extra cover for the House GOP. It does nothing for the Dems beyond whatever yuk-yuk they get tomorrow. That's it.

I dream about pretty girls, btw ;)

Nah, it's actually a game changer. It's the first time the Democrats had the balls to call Boehner's bluff, and he folded big time.

In the meantime, Obama is polling better and better against both of the Republican frontrunners....
 
this was a stupid hill to die on.

the Republicans are fighting the perception that they are only the party of the rich. they are on the record now as resorting to brinksmanship against continuing a tax cut for the poorest. not to mention that this particular cut undermines a program that they have been unhappy with for 76 years. it should have been obvious that in our present economy, this battle was not winnable.

the underlying problem remains : people need the 40 bucks a paycheck and endless unemployment benefits because wages have stagnated for decades and too many people are out of work. social security is going to need serious help, as well, if it is to continue. funding will have to be thoroughly reexamined or people my age will never collect.

importing everything and exporting jobs has serious consequences that are not reflected in retail prices. we're going to have to find some way to employ the unemployed. the other choice is entitlements. choose wisely.
 
Nah, it's actually a game changer. It's the first time the Democrats had the balls to call Boehner's bluff, and he folded big time.

In the meantime, Obama is polling better and better against both of the Republican frontrunners....

LOL .... and just what game has been changed here ? Nothing. As I said, all this is a none issue come February, when they have to get the deal to cover the rest of the year. This "game changer" enables the House GOP to illustrate what happens when the can gets kicked. You can bet that this will be mentioned then, and it will only work to the benefit of the House GOP at that time.

Boehner gets the last laugh on this. ;)
 
LOL .... and just what game has been changed here ? Nothing. As I said, all this is a none issue come February, when they have to get the deal to cover the rest of the year. This "game changer" enables the House GOP to illustrate what happens when the can gets kicked. You can bet that this will be mentioned then, and it will only work to the benefit of the House GOP at that time.

Boehner gets the last laugh on this. ;)

Okay, I'll bookmark your post and we'll talk about it then. Boehner can explain why he won't accept an extension of the compromise bill that Senate Republicans are very happy with. Should be good. :lol:

btw, if you think Boehner's going to risk looking like an even bigger douche in two months, you better think again.
 
Last edited:
Nah, it's actually a game changer. It's the first time the Democrats had the balls to call Boehner's bluff, and he folded big time.

I think it is foolishly presumptuous to call it a ‘game changer’ today. The final bill has not been written nor passed. We’ll see.

BTW, 82 is correct...Americans have a VERY short memory. There is WAY too much crap to be debated in Congress between now and November.
 
I think it is foolishly presumptuous to call it a ‘game changer’ today. The final bill has not been written nor passed. We’ll see.

BTW, 82 is correct...Americans have a VERY short memory. There is WAY too much crap to be debated in Congress between now and November.

I'm not saying that people are going to look back at this incident and pull the lever another way because of it. What I'm saying is that Americans were sick to death of the brinksmanship going back to the debt limit fiasco, and this is damned big piece of straw to toss onto that camel's back.
 
What I'm saying is that Americans were sick to death of the brinksmanship going back to the debt limit fiasco, and this is damned big piece of straw to toss onto that camel's back.

They may be but are they getting the full story? Do they know how is this getting paid for SPECIFICALLY? Is this sustainable or are we throwing another log on the debt bonfire? Is it ‘I want what I want now’ to hell with the consequences down the road? Is this the responsible way to address our future or a mere gimmick to pander to the populous? To be sure these decisions have consequences and we must be pragmatic on how we arrive at them.
 
Of course we knew this coming out of the 2010 election and yet John Boehner received no competition for the position. In 2012, as important as it is for Republicans to gain control of both chambers, of equal importance is the election of caucus leadership that rejects the business-as-usual establishment types like Mitch McConnell and Boehner and replaces them with leadership from the base/Tea Party. The election of a Republican president makes that even more integral to the success of conservatism in Washington.

Republicans already control the senate; and they have more most of the past decade.... save a one year period in 2009. Republicans are likely to lose the house.
 
Okay, I'll bookmark your post and we'll talk about it then. Boehner can explain why he won't accept an extension of the compromise bill that Senate Republicans are very happy with. Should be good. :lol:

btw, if you think Boehner's going to risk looking like an even bigger douche in two months, you better think again.

I hope we can exchange on this when that mess unfolds, because it will be a mess.

Senate Republicans are off the table, btw. All of 10 of them are up for reelection in November ? While 23 Dems are ? Do I have that right ? And none of the gOP seats are in danger. Meanwhile, all the House seats are up, as you know. The Senate GOP did just as the Senate Dems did. "Let's go home for the holidays". Boehner snatched one more arrow to put in his quiver for that February mess is all.

Boehner and Cantor had already read the Tea Leaves. Even a blind bowling ball could see there was zero traction to make this fight, this week. But they got their press, their sound-bites, and will now save them for two months.
 
I'm not saying that people are going to look back at this incident and pull the lever another way because of it. What I'm saying is that Americans were sick to death of the brinksmanship going back to the debt limit fiasco, and this is damned big piece of straw to toss onto that camel's back.

Not this week its not. That straw is the February fight. And I agree that such fight will put many politicians in crosshairs. That is why this maneuver by Boehner now.
 
I have to admit to an imperfect understanding of this issue.

First, the original tax cut was a Democrat idea, was it not? Cut payroll taxes, which are supposed to have been Social Security taxes, but have been spent on anything and everything for decades, in order to put a few more bucks in the pockets of the middle class and working poor. OK, so far.

Of course, the issue of keeping SS alive while cutting the tax hasn't been addressed.

Then, the Republicans want to extend the tax cuts for a year, while the Democrats want to extend their own idea for two months.

and, finally, they cave and the Democrats get their way, which is to continue the tax cuts they initiated only two months instead of a year.

I must be missing something here.
 
Back
Top Bottom