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Thread: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Which is why I noted "on a yearly basis". DUH !

    Its called kicking the can. As with all things, its giving money out now, to be paid for by the future. So the deficit will rise because of it.
    Yes, that's pretty much the point of passing stimulus measures. You pump money into the economy to combat a demand-side slowdown, then pay it back when the economy has regained strength. Otherwise it's like trying to fill up a hole, where you have one guy shoveling dirt in and another guy shoveling dirt out.

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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yes, that's pretty much the point of passing stimulus measures. You pump money into the economy to combat a demand-side slowdown, then pay it back when the economy has regained strength. Otherwise it's like trying to fill up a hole, where you have one guy shoveling dirt in and another guy shoveling dirt out.
    The amount of money we are sucking out of the economy to pay for artificially tweaking the economy for the last 30 years is why we are where we are.

    The government needs to stop intervening cold-turkey.

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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yes, that's pretty much the point of passing stimulus measures. You pump money into the economy to combat a demand-side slowdown, then pay it back when the economy has regained strength. Otherwise it's like trying to fill up a hole, where you have one guy shoveling dirt in and another guy shoveling dirt out.
    $ 16 Trillion in debt says we need a new plan

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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    The amount of money we are sucking out of the economy to pay for artificially tweaking the economy for the last 30 years is why we are where we are.

    The government needs to stop intervening cold-turkey.
    I disagree. The reason the debt is so high is that we cut taxes too much and spent too much on foreign wars and defense spending in general. If we had simply left the top effective tax rate where it was in 1986, the current debt would be quite manageable. If Bush had not cut taxes and invaded Iraq, the debt would be quite manageable. Basically what it comes down to is this: we have to realize that we can't have low taxes and a strong safety net and be the world's police man. We can do one of those, or possibly two, but not all three.

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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I disagree. The reason the debt is so high is that we cut taxes too much and spent too much on foreign wars and defense spending in general. If we had simply left the top effective tax rate where it was in 1986, the current debt would be quite manageable. If Bush had not cut taxes and invaded Iraq, the debt would be quite manageable. Basically what it comes down to is this: we have to realize that we can't have low taxes and a strong safety net and be the world's police man. We can do one of those, or possibly two, but not all three.
    A most excellent summary of the current problem.
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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I disagree. The reason the debt is so high is that we cut taxes too much and spent too much on foreign wars and defense spending in general. If we had simply left the top effective tax rate where it was in 1986, the current debt would be quite manageable. If Bush had not cut taxes and invaded Iraq, the debt would be quite manageable. Basically what it comes down to is this: we have to realize that we can't have low taxes and a strong safety net and be the world's police man. We can do one of those, or possibly two, but not all three.
    in 1990, 27% of our 1.2 trillion of spending was on defense, 41% of our 1.2 trillion of spending is on entitlements. 37% of revenue was from FICA.

    in 2011, 25% of our 3.6 trillion of spending is on defense. 59% of our 3.6 trillion of spending is on entitlements. 40% of revenue was from FICA.

    See the problem?
    Last edited by Samhain; 12-28-11 at 11:20 AM.

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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    in 1990, 27% of our 1.2 trillion of spending was on defense, 41% of our 1.2 trillion of spending is on entitlements. 37% of revenue was from FICA.

    in 2011, 25% of our 3.6 trillion of spending is on defense. 59% of our 3.6 trillion of spending is on entitlements. 40% of revenue was from FICA.

    See the problem?
    Yes, there's no doubt that we need to get Medicare under control. Unfortunately that is easier said than done. It is more of a problem with the health care economy than it is a government problem, by which I mean that the cost has skyrocketed for both public and private health care. That is at the root of our fiscal woes. Health care costs have been increasing at roughly double the inflation rate for decades, and are also outpacing GDP growth. As a nation we spend over $2 trillion per year on health care. We pay roughly double what other developed countries pay per capita.

    See the problem?

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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    in 1990, 27% of our 1.2 trillion of spending was on defense, 41% of our 1.2 trillion of spending is on entitlements. 37% of revenue was from FICA.

    in 2011, 25% of our 3.6 trillion of spending is on defense. 59% of our 3.6 trillion of spending is on entitlements. 40% of revenue was from FICA.

    See the problem?
    can you see it better now?
    graph federal spending percentage of GNP.jpg
    notice the government's portion of GNP
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yes, that's pretty much the point of passing stimulus measures. You pump money into the economy to combat a demand-side slowdown, then pay it back when the economy has regained strength. Otherwise it's like trying to fill up a hole, where you have one guy shoveling dirt in and another guy shoveling dirt out.
    The guy shoveling it out has been gaining on the guy shoveling it in for about 30 years now. When does the economy regain strength, and the debt begin to actually diminish?

    I think Congress has been shoveling something besides dirt.
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    Re: House Republicans Cave on Payroll Tax Cuts Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The guy shoveling it out has been gaining on the guy shoveling it in for about 30 years now. When does the economy regain strength, and the debt begin to actually diminish?

    I think Congress has been shoveling something besides dirt.
    The debt was very close to diminishing at the end of Clinton's term. So imagine that Bush had not immediately lowered taxes, hadn't invaded Iraq, and hadn't signed Medicare Part D. Then imagine that, with less liquidity in the economy, the housing bubble would have been less severe (assuming nothing else was done to curb the crisis).

    But I totally agree that Congress is full of ****, and it comes from both sides of the aisle.

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