View Poll Results: is the iraq war over ??

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    10 58.82%
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Thread: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

  1. #51
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This is an interesting new twist in modern warfare. Signing an agreement that a war will only continue to a predetermined date and then one side, the side of the Democracies, will withdraw.

    The strategy behind this is political, not military, and by doing so the American government consigned some of their best people to die in a useless cause.

    Iraq will now go the way of Egypt, Libya, Syria and Iran. Nixon was absolutely right about the Vietnam syndrome and what it would mean to American respect around the world. Now the Americans, like all their Allies, want to fight a war where no one gets hurt and a withdrawal date is decided upon well in advance.

    While it may be a spat between the Democrats and Republicans domestically, and the American people will argue back and forth about that, it means a hell of a lot internationally. It really doesnt matter what the Americans think anymore in fact, as its all blather. They have become European and will suffer the similar consequences.
    Of course it was political.

    We shouldn't get involved in a war unless we're ready to see it through to the end and let the chips fall where they may. If we're going to war, then let's go for total victory, total defeat of the enemy, and the entire nation at war, not just the professional military.

    Iraq is one we should have skipped entirely.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  2. #52
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    [my bold]


    It always bugs me when people throw around HUGE numbers of civilian casualties. I've heard people claiming millions of Iraqis dead, but this wasn't RT. Still, I wanted to give a better number than "hundreds of thousands." This comes from NIC, a group of peace activists keeping tally.
    Iraq Body Count
    Total civilian deaths: 104,308 – 113,962 (so just over 100,000 NOT "hundreds of thousands." - singular not plural). Now lets look at civilian deaths during the invasion in 2003.

    Just in the invasion alone we get this from Wiki:[my bold]

    So as many 4300 civilians were killed during the invasion.

    While Coalition forces were responsible for more civilian deaths in the coming years, the lion's share of the killing was committed by domestic and foreign insurgents (gee thanks Iran) and domestic criminal activity (Iraqis killing Iraqis). At least the US can claim it was trying to get insurgents when civilians were accidentally killed. Insurgents were targeting civilians to foment violence between Sunnis and Shiites. Unfortunately it worked. Iraqis have only themselves to blame for accepting this obvious bait.

    While this is not meant to belittle the civilian deaths. Any civilian death is a tragedy. The record should be set straight.
    Gosh, only a little over a hundred thousand dead Iraqis as a result of the decision to go to a half way war in that country. Why, the buggers should be grateful that we fought for their freedom for such a small price. Now, if a hundred thousand Americans had died, that would be another matter, but a hundred thousand foreigners who don't even speak English? That's such a small matter, than no one should be upset by it.





    (sarcasm off.. for now)
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  3. #53
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    There were no options on the table that would've allowed us to leave without throwing the lives spent there down the drain. The entire war was a waste of lives -- not because the cause wasn't noble, but because there's never been a viable plan for success. Sticking around would have done nothing but waste more lives.

    Getting out now was the right thing to do for the US, the Iraqis can sort out the rest on their own.
    Do you really believe that the US can divorce itself from events in the Middle East and go on with business as usual?

    I guess that means the airport gropings can stop now.

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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I voted no to the war being over...but I hope OUR war in iraq is over...
    Don't you know there are at least two sides in any war?

    Just because you prefer to think its over and want to quit doesn't mean a thing unless your enemies also say it's over.

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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Of course it was political.

    We shouldn't get involved in a war unless we're ready to see it through to the end and let the chips fall where they may. If we're going to war, then let's go for total victory, total defeat of the enemy, and the entire nation at war, not just the professional military.

    Iraq is one we should have skipped entirely.
    Yes, the US has forgotten how to win a war and that has become common knowledge. They are the weak horse, as has been charged, and all the weaponry in the world won't change that.

    Iraq gave the US and its Allies an opportunity to station their troops in the Middle East, just as they did in Western Europe following WWII. Now that chance has largely gone and this appeasement will once again encourage the inevitable, just as happened following WWI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_with_Germany
    Last edited by Grant; 12-24-11 at 06:00 PM.

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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Oh please, are you kidding me? Do a simple google search on "America's aging infrastructure" and you will see that roads, bridges, water/sewer lines, electric grid, etc are all sub par and are in need of repair and upgrade.

    How about we fix OUR country before we try nation building ok?
    Aren't those all local requirements?

  7. #57
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by washamericom View Post
    yesterday it was, today it isn't...

    in the wake of today's bombing, president obama ostensibly can't just wave a confident hand and say the war is over.

    if he could he would have wished saddam into the cornfield as a senator and fixed syria today.

    joe biden's dream of three iraqs is coming to fruition, and we're apparently buds with the taliban. why would the west point generals know more about war and peace than a community organiser ??



    BBC News - At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks
    Hell yes it's over, invading Iraq was one of the stupidest things our country has ever done. Just think of all the American lives that were snuffed out and the thousands of life altering injuries our troops have suffered! The broken families... Homes... jobs... divorces. And for what? The worlds largest embassy in Baghdad?


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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Hell yes it's over, invading Iraq was one of the stupidest things our country has ever done. Just think of all the American lives that were snuffed out and the thousands of life altering injuries our troops have suffered! The broken families... Homes... jobs... divorces. And for what? The worlds largest embassy in Baghdad?
    Just think of all the American lives that were saved and the life altering injuries that were avoided, by taking on the problem, now, vice 10 years from now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #59
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you really believe that the US can divorce itself from events in the Middle East and go on with business as usual?

    I guess that means the airport gropings can stop now.
    Sorry, I must have been out sick when my geography teacher explained that Iraq and the Middle East are one and the same.

    Or was it the day that my global studies teacher explained that Islam and the Middle East are one and the same?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Hell yes it's over, invading Iraq was one of the stupidest things our country has ever done. Just think of all the American lives that were snuffed out and the thousands of life altering injuries our troops have suffered! The broken families... Homes... jobs... divorces. And for what? The worlds largest embassy in Baghdad?
    Don't underestimate the importance of that Embassy. It gives ears and eyes to almost everything going on n the Middle East. But there should have been troops stationed there, in conjunction with American Allies, to maintain some control. This was done following WWII and there is little reason why we should trust the Arabs any more than we trust the Europeans.

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