View Poll Results: is the iraq war over ??

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    10 58.82%
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Thread: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

  1. #101
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    For me, it's not even a question of how our interests are best served. Sometimes you have to do a thing because it's the right thing, not because it's to your advantage. My concern is that every day we're there is a day we're fighting a battle that we're either losing or winning with significantly diminishing returns (depending on your perspective). I'd greatly prefer that we throw our shoulders into something we can actually hope to accomplish, and ending sectarian strife in Iraq ain't it.
    True that, but we do have to worry about our diplomats in the country. The US embassy in Iraq is our biggest in the world. With the SOFA set to expire at the end of the year, these people have plenty to worry about as far as security goes. The fact is, the outcome is not ideal. But the shia want us out, and IMO they have the strongest voice in iraq. I am saying, at least it is over and I am praying that the state department is up to the task.

  2. #102
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    For me, it's not even a question of how our interests are best served. Sometimes you have to do a thing because it's the right thing, not because it's to your advantage. My concern is that every day we're there is a day we're fighting a battle that we're either losing or winning with significantly diminishing returns (depending on your perspective). I'd greatly prefer that we throw our shoulders into something we can actually hope to accomplish, and ending sectarian strife in Iraq ain't it.
    "Sectarian strife", in Iraq and elsewhere, is ever more inevitable now. Prepare yourself for cavity searches at the airports.

  3. #103
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How many fundamentalists are there?

    Look at how the west rolled over following the riots about the Mohammed cartoons. People are easily frightened and we have seen repeatedly throughout history how a small but fanatically determined group can overwhelm an entire country, and neighboring countries as well.


    If it's always "their call", regarding threats to other countries, then it seems you are advancing an isolationist policy for the US. Is that your position?
    The great majority of Muslims are not violent extremist fundamentalists. Been there...more than a few times. The problem is that the many so readily allow the few to dominate them. And that is a choice...one they get to make. I have little sympathy for the Iraqi people if they, after all this, refuse to take a stand against the fundamentalists. The bombing that started this OP...that was the act of a few striking out against the many. If the many dont take a stand...then they get precisly what they deserve. That is my position.

  4. #104
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I didn't pút any words in your mouth
    Yes, you absolutely did. I was talking about getting out of Iraq and you responded as if I was saying we needed to adopt an isolationist policy with respect to the Middle East. I even showed you where you did this. You're just refusing to see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact just the opposite was happening as you can tell from the casualty rate.
    The only official tally of casualties is that of US casualties. That tells us how many of ours were wounded or killed, it doesn't tell us how many of the enemy were killed, so you can't tell anything at all from the casualty rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I also don't buy the argument that the US Military, the strongest force in the world, is overly concerned abut '"aggrieved Iraqis" and "Militants".
    Actually, I'm quite sure that they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, the Iraqis might be able to sort out there problems through democracy one day but that day has not yet arrived.
    We can't afford to wait around until that day comes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It wold seem that the US President will only station troops where they are out of harms way. You can have the girl scouts do that.
    You obviously understand the purpose of the military bases we've got around the world even less than you understand the situation in Iraq, and that's saying something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact they could leave when the country was firmly democratic and it became a tradition, just as has happened in Europe. Barrack Obama has made sure that those who died in Iraq, or who have suffered from injuries, will have done so in vain.
    Obama is smart enough to know that we can't afford to wait around until Iraq reaches that point.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #105
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    True that, but we do have to worry about our diplomats in the country. The US embassy in Iraq is our biggest in the world. With the SOFA set to expire at the end of the year, these people have plenty to worry about as far as security goes. The fact is, the outcome is not ideal. But the shia want us out, and IMO they have the strongest voice in iraq. I am saying, at least it is over and I am praying that the state department is up to the task.
    If the Iraqis won't let us secure our own embassy, then we shouldn't have an embassy in Iraq.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #106
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "Sectarian strife", in Iraq and elsewhere, is ever more inevitable now. Prepare yourself for cavity searches at the airports.
    It was inevitable from the moment Hussein was brought down.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  7. #107
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    If the Iraqis won't let us secure our own embassy, then we shouldn't have an embassy in Iraq.
    Well that would be the exact reason why pulling troops out right now is of some controversy. The state department has never really taken on something like this and with the potential for another ethnic conflict you can instantly see the problems that could arise. That is why I am hoping the state department is up to the task and we can foster a mutually beneficial relationship, similar to what we have with other countries. However, by just packing up shop completely and isolating ourselves from Iraq, you are guaranteeing failure.

  8. #108
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Well that would be the exact reason why pulling troops out right now is of some controversy. The state department has never really taken on something like this and with the potential for another ethnic conflict you can instantly see the problems that could arise. That is why I am hoping the state department is up to the task and we can foster a mutually beneficial relationship, similar to what we have with other countries. However, by just packing up shop completely and isolating ourselves from Iraq, you are guaranteeing failure.
    I have a very hard time believing that the State Department is lacking experience in maintaining embassies in less-than-ideal circumstances. Besides, isn't this something the Marines normally help with?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #109
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I have a very hard time believing that the State Department is lacking experience in maintaining embassies in less-than-ideal circumstances. Besides, isn't this something the Marines normally help with?
    That is the entire point. The marines won't be helping, our troops are pulling out and leaving the state department to secure the largest diplomatic effort in US history. Managing the task without the help of the military is beyond their usual scope of work.

  10. #110
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    Re: At least 63 killed in co-ordinated Baghdad attacks [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    That is the entire point. The marines won't be helping, our troops are pulling out and leaving the state department to secure the largest diplomatic effort in US history. Managing the task without the help of the military is beyond their usual scope of work.
    If the following article is to be believed, they've got it in hand. In addition to the private security and CIA security on-site, there are military resources at the ready nearby:

    Iraq withdrawal 2011
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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