Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: More officers dying in ambush attacks

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    speculating that the good will leos enjoyed after the outpouring of good will to the 9/11 responders is now ended
    we have seen how they have been wielded as a weapon for political power against the people
    their behavior towards Occupy participants is the most recent example
    it will not surprise me if the trend does not continue in an upward trajectory
    Then I would suggest that these officers need to get into a "shoot-first" mentality. They also need to be going out and getting additional private firearms training and practice on their own (something I know some departments here in New England don't want their officers doing).

  2. #12
    Sage
    lpast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fla
    Last Seen
    05-21-16 @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    13,565

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Then I would suggest that these officers need to get into a "shoot-first" mentality. They also need to be going out and getting additional private firearms training and practice on their own (something I know some departments here in New England don't want their officers doing).
    Thats exactly whats going to happen...if Responding officers continue or increasingly are subjected to ambushs...they will react to perceived threats more quickly and more mistakes will occur...thats human nature. I predict police shootings will start to rise .

    Police get shot more often than not..because when they arrive at a scene they have to assess the threat...they cant just pull their weapon and start spraying the area...they have to use restraint and stay within the law...the bad guys DO NOT...who has the advantage? the guy that can just start shooting if he has the mindset or the guy that has to use restraint
    Last edited by lpast; 12-22-11 at 10:06 AM.

  3. #13
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,740

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    While I agree with Rev that this is mainly an anti-gun crusade; I do have to say that the level of training and equipment that we provide to LEO's (especially at the local and state level) is horrendously insufficient when it comes to firearms related activities. I say this as someone who has a great respect for the job these LEO's do, and as someone who has had the opportunity to shoot competitively alongside LEO's from local cops up to and including FBI, US Border Patrol, and Secret Service agents.


    Blame the cops, many of them have no interest in bettering thier training. One of the lectures we give at the CQB courses I help at is the saying, "safest place to stand when a cop is shooting at you? Right in front of him"....


    Hit rates for NYPD, I believe at one time was 17%, the criminals? 30%.... I gotta look that up.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #14
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,740

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    23% annual increase is quite substantial
    doesn't matter the base
    but what is the long term trend
    was it down 23% the year previous


    a "50% increase" tells you nothing, and is far less when the number is 1 vs, 10,000 /facepalm



    speculating that the good will leos enjoyed after the outpouring of good will to the 9/11 responders is now ended
    we have seen how they have been wielded as a weapon for political power against the people
    their behavior towards Occupy participants is the most recent example
    it will not surprise me if the trend does not continue in an upward trajectory

    So you are saying #ows dirtbags are rightfully shooting cops now? what?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    01-10-12 @ 03:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    373

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    Because some cops deserve to die. HUH!? IMAGINE THAT!?
    Cops deserve to die? Why exactly is that? Because it's all about "eff the pigs" and "cops are corrupt" and all that stuff you heard on MTV? I'm sorry but law enforcement saves lives every day, putting their own lives on the line for a 45-60k average yearly salary. Their entire profession is a contribution to society. The next time some lunatic breaks in a defenseless old womans house, or arrests a serial child molestor, or prevents a subway bombing...just remember you wished death on "some cops". Of course there are corrupt cops, but that's why their called "corrupt", because they are not doing their jobs as civil servants of society.

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Thats exactly whats going to happen...if Responding officers continue or increasingly are subjected to ambushs...they will react to perceived threats more quickly and more mistakes will occur...thats human nature. I predict police shootings will start to rise .

    Police get shot more often than not..because when they arrive at a scene they have to assess the threat...they cant just pull their weapon and start spraying the area...they have to use restraint and stay within the law...the bad guys DO NOT...who has the advantage? the guy that can just start shooting if he has the mindset or the guy that has to use restraint
    Exactly.

    Couple that with the fact that most LEO's have to purchase their own body armor (relatively expensive for truly good stuff); and are restrained in most communities from using the most effective self-defense ammuntion in their guns (Jacketed Hollowpoints); are not given adequate training in the use of the firearm, nevermind in actual gunfighting techniques (5 days out of a 14 week CT State Police Academy, as one example); and are subject to public abuse and loss of their job when they do use a gun to defend themselves; and you have the recipe for sheer and utter disaster when it comes to officer involved shootings.

    I had the pleasure of meeting Veteran NYPD detective Jim Cirillo before his untimely death a couple years back. He would shoot at some of the same competitions that I did. One year a new study had just come out about the number of rounds fired by the NYPD and the hit ratio for officer involved shootings. The number of rounds was up by 3-4 times what it had been 20 years earlier and the hit percentage was almost non-existant just before I saw Jim at an event in Springfield, MA. At lunch one day I asked Jim about the study. He was aware of it, having been involved in it. His response when I asked why the numbers changed..... "Those damn, slab-sided guns." (a reference to semi-autos compared to the revolved Jim had carried and still shot) "These kids nowadays just spray-and-pray. They carry 80-100 rounds with them. It's reconnaisance by fire. Back in my day we carried 18 rounds and they never taught us how to use a speed-loader. You knew that if you had to reload the bad guy was gonna off ya while you were trying to get the revolver reloaded; so we all practiced to make damn sure we could hit what we needed to with those first six rounds."

  7. #17
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,151

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    a "50% increase" tells you nothing, and is far less when the number is 1 vs, 10,000 /facepalm
    clearly, math was not an easy subject for you

    So you are saying #ows dirtbags are rightfully shooting cops now? what?
    by no means. Ows was largely peaceful ... at least by the participants. not so much for the leos

    the use of law enforcement to effect unpopular political decisions - most recently the application of force against Ows participants - has taken the bloom off of the rose. leos (unfairly, but by association) enjoyed the public's good will subsequent to the heroic efforts of the 9/11 first responders
    only now is the public again realizing that their expectation of good behavior by leos was unwarranted
    which likely explains part of the increase in cop killings by ambush
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #18
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,740

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    Because some cops deserve to die. HUH!? IMAGINE THAT!?


    Really? Which ones? The ones protecting you and your family from criminal hordes? How about the ones directing traffic so your kids can walk to school? Maybe the ones that intervene in violent domestic abuse cases? Those cops?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #19
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,740

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    clearly, math was not an easy subject for you

    Ironic.


    Would you rather have your dollar doubled, or your 100 dollars doubled?



    /fail




    by no means. Ows was largely peaceful ... at least by the participants. not so much for the leos

    the use of law enforcement to effect unpopular political decisions - most recently the application of force against Ows participants - has taken the bloom off of the rose. leos (unfairly, but by association) enjoyed the public's good will subsequent to the heroic efforts of the 9/11 first responders
    only now is the public again realizing that their expectation of good behavior by leos was unwarranted
    which likely explains part of the increase in cop killings by ambush

    kinda skimmed this, but you seem to be infering OWS is killing cops.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: More officers dying in ambush attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Blame the cops, many of them have no interest in bettering thier training. One of the lectures we give at the CQB courses I help at is the saying, "safest place to stand when a cop is shooting at you? Right in front of him"....
    Yes, in many cases it's the cops being unwilling to do anything they're not being paid for. We had one officer at the range I shoot at who offered training credits to fellow officers to come and shoot matches. He still couldn't get guys to show up. HOWEVER, there is a nasty undercurrent that you may not know about.... At least in New England many agencies Restrict or Deny their officers the right to take certain courses or shoot certain types of events. For example..... the Massachusetts State Police denies their Troopers the right to engage in any shooting activity (training, competition, etc....) that simulates shooting a target in the head. Additionally, the training they receive and the lack of community support when an officer does become involved in a shooting don't help the situation. Lastly, in some cases the additional training has been used to classify a cop as a "rogue, dangerously violent" officer when he/she is involved in a shooting down the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Hit rates for NYPD, I believe at one time was 17%, the criminals? 30%.... I gotta look that up.
    See my commentary on that in my post above.
    Last edited by Tigger; 12-22-11 at 10:29 AM.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •