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Thread: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

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    Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    The Finnish authorities have impounded an Isle of Man-flagged ship bound for China with undeclared missiles and explosives, officials say.

    Police are questioning the crew of the MS Thor Liberty after what were described as 69 Patriot anti-missile missiles were found aboard. Interior Minister Paivi Rasanen said the missiles were marked "fireworks".

    The MS Thor Liberty had docked in the Finnish port of Kotka after leaving Germany last week.......

    The MS Thor Liberty left port in Emden, northern Germany, on 13 December and docked two days later in Kotka, southern Finland, to pick up a cargo of anchor chains, said Finnish Customs spokesman Petri Lounatmaa.

    It was bound for the Chinese port of Shanghai but there was no indication for whom the military cargo was destined.

    Routine checks by Finland's traffic safety authority revealed a load of up to 160 tons of improperly packed nitroguanidine, a low-sensitivity explosive with a high detonation speed. "Actually in our investigation at the moment, we have got the information that we found 69 Patriot missiles on the ship and around 160 tons of explosives," said Detective Superintendent Timo Virtanen from the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation.
    BBC News - Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Wonder if these were ordered by the Chinese government or some other group? Thoughts anyone?
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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Some gun-runner is just trying to make a buck. Coming from Germany though...that is an interesting fact. Let's see where that leads.

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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Quote Originally Posted by coolwalker View Post
    Some gun-runner is just trying to make a buck. Coming from Germany though...that is an interesting fact. Let's see where that leads.
    A gun runner gets access to patriot missiles that are government only issue and highly classified? Not only does he / she get access but has the clearance to move them, get licenses and authority to get them on a ship and then bribe a multitude of people to mis-label them, lie about it on a ships manifest which is also government reviewed / controlled, and ship it to China?


    This one stinks from here to Munich. On an aside, China's smart - why build a better mousetrap when they can steal the existing one, reverse engineer it for a fraction of the cost and export it for big bucks - all the while gaining economic and military equality for the dumb asses in the U.S. who let our technology out willy-nilly to all of our "friends and allies". It's this kind of stuff that makes Ron Paul's views LESS extreme.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    A gun runner gets access to patriot missiles that are government only issue and highly classified? Not only does he / she get access but has the clearance to move them, get licenses and authority to get them on a ship and then bribe a multitude of people to mis-label them, lie about it on a ships manifest which is also government reviewed / controlled, and ship it to China?


    This one stinks from here to Munich. On an aside, China's smart - why build a better mousetrap when they can steal the existing one, reverse engineer it for a fraction of the cost and export it for big bucks - all the while gaining economic and military equality for the dumb asses in the U.S. who let our technology out willy-nilly to all of our "friends and allies". It's this kind of stuff that makes Ron Paul's views LESS extreme.
    His views are still extreme. The gun-running is the problem, let's not add to the problem with Paul's concepts of keeping our nation safe which is Isolationism .

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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Obviously not actually going to China. Southeast Asia, sure.

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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    The Patriot is military hardware. Such a shipment/transfer should have what is called an End-User-Certificate attached. Where is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Obviously not actually going to China. Southeast Asia, sure.
    Huh?

    It was bound for the Chinese port of Shanghai

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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Would an end-user certificate be required for fireworks? That's how the missiles were labelled and were listed on the manifest.

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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Would an end-user certificate be required for fireworks? That's how the missiles were labelled and were listed on the manifest.
    bound for shanghai, and marked fireworks? stoopid....they might as well have marked it TEA...
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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Would an end-user certificate be required for fireworks? That's how the missiles were labelled and were listed on the manifest.
    EUCs are required by most modern nations for the import/export/transfer of goods with a military application. This includes guns/ammunition and also many items that are considered dual-use items or WMD components. Commercial fireworks do not require a EUC.

    Without a EUC, this Patriot shipment is either a covert government/government transfer, or it is an unlawful smuggling operation.

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    Re: Finland 'finds Patriot missiles' on China-bound ship

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    The Patriot is military hardware. Such a shipment/transfer should have what is called an End-User-Certificate attached. Where is it?


    Huh?
    Seriously? You think that a ship carrying illegal cargo, listed under falsified pretenses, is going to actually put on the manifest where they are going?

    Its not like the damn ship is on auto-pilot and will only go where the manifest says its going. Geez.

    Like Tashah stated, its either a sponsored covert operation or smuggling, both of which would never put in plain terms what its really for.

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