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Thread: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I find it kind of weird that everybody is talking about psych evaluations here, almost if we are assuming that people in the military don't have the same kind of distribution of bad people that exist in civilian life. Murder happens in civilian life. Murder also happens in military life. People are people, no matter the situation. Here is the way I see it - 8 gangstas committed murder. Convict them and lock 'em up. End of story. Charge the Lieutenant with conspiracy and lock him up too.
    Their platoon leader was in on it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Uhhh, no. Are you just saying this **** to be different? How exactly is that "the most dysfunctional way to run an army?" In a cohesive unit, leaders are of course responsible for the actions of their subordinates, or at the very least they are accountable for taking care of this kinda **** when it gets out of hand. Who else is gonna do it? You're gonna have the privates police themselves?

    And your argument completely fails upon the fact that some of these so-called leaders are actually charged with the act of negligent homicide itself. Some of these guys weren't simply the enablers, they are the alleged perpetrators.
    It's totally assinine to say that this incident had anything to do with a lack of unit cohesion.

    Kinda makes you rethink the whole end DADT thing, don't it, since all our soldiers are so professional-n-all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's totally assinine to say that this incident had anything to do with a lack of unit cohesion.

    Kinda makes you rethink the whole end DADT thing, don't it, since all our soldiers are so professional-n-all.
    Well, I'm sure it was real cohesive for Pvt. Chen

    And for the record, I said it was the result of a failure of leadership more than anything else.

    As for the DADT thing, if you're a faggot and you're in an environment where there are hostile attitudes towards homosexuality, you're gonna shut up about your sex life whether or not DADT is there.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 12-21-11 at 09:34 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, I'm sure it was real cohesive for Pvt. Chen

    And for the record, I said it was the result of a failure of leadership more than anything else.

    As for the DADT thing, if you're a faggot and you're in an environment where there are hostile attitudes towards homosexuality, you're gonna shut up about your sex life whether or not DADT is there.
    None of us have enough information to know that for sure.

    I mean, for all we know, Chen may have been a barracks thief, or a shirker. He might have dropped the ball in a fire-fight and gotten people killed. He might have made threats of his own towards other soldiers.

    The point is...we don't know, and blaming all this on unit leadership is just plain stupid.

    You're right, leaders are responsible for the actions of their men. What that means, is that they are responsible to teach the proper mode of conduct and to punish them when they step out of line.
    Last edited by apdst; 12-21-11 at 09:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    I hope these bastards enjoy a nice long stay in Levanworth.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    As for the DADT thing, if you're a faggot and you're in an environment where there are hostile attitudes towards homosexuality, you're gonna shut up about your sex life whether or not DADT is there.
    There's a difference between getting "shut up" (and being able to bring complaints/charges regarding it) and getting prosecuted.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't think psychological testing (or lack thereof) is the problem here, given what little we know about the situation. Most people who pass recruit training are already physically and psychologically tougher than 90% of the rest of the population.

    The same thing could have happened in any college fraternity across America. The difference is that officers and noncoms are supposed to watch out for this **** and deal with it as soon as possible, rather than neglecting or even perpetrating it.
    I agree, I think that the officers and noncom should watch out for this and I think it was probably a breakdown in the chain of organization or something like that. It should a component of training and promotion to watch out for this kind of stuff. I guess the least positive is that some people are being properly held accountable for this, although it is a tragedy that it wasn't stopped in time.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    this is so terribly sad.........and here's are my questions:

    does the military institution breed this kind of pack behavior, and should we start to think about more in depth psychological testing and higher stanards for entrance into the military?




    U.S. News - 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    and you're right, we don't know the facts. but the military does, and they've deemed this to be negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter.
    The military does not create "touchy-feeley" people, it creates killers. It's like having a Rottweiler. The dog may never harm anyone, then all of a sudden it will maul a child. While the actions of those solders was deplorable, what else is to be expected of people prepared to die at any given moment and are wired tighter than a drum. We have trained killers, emotionless killers...it is the nature of the beast to be aggressive. Not only that, you have the hot blood of youth running through their veins. The military will take care of its own. They always have.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    I agree, I think that the officers and noncom should watch out for this and I think it was probably a breakdown in the chain of organization or something like that. It should a component of training and promotion to watch out for this kind of stuff. I guess the least positive is that some people are being properly held accountable for this, although it is a tragedy that it wasn't stopped in time.
    You believe this because of your long military career. Yes?

    Care to into depth about how the, "chain of organization", brokedown?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You believe this because of your long military career. Yes?

    Care to into depth about how the, "chain of organization", brokedown?
    Did I say I had a long military career? I was merely adding my opinion and observation. I wrote chain of organization instead of chain of command to show that I do not have a military background. I am able to voice my observation and thought on this subject just as equally as you are. Please post your credentials if you feel you are so qualified.

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