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Thread: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah....murder tends to be one of those lines, huh. I'm not sure this case was bullying/hazing. It may have been outright murder.
    At this point it's unclear what actually happened. Some of the guys have been charged with negligent homicide, while other stories I have read say Pvt. Chen committed suicide because of harassment/social ostracization.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    There are tests. It is a multiple choice question. I wouldn't consider it heavy...they were basically the same test you took highschool to determine what job you should have.
    I'm not talking about the ASVAB here, I'm talking about physical and psychological evaluations by the doctors at MEPS. Maybe things are different now than they were then, I'm no expert.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #33
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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    At this point it's unclear what actually happened. Some of the guys have been charged with negligent homicide, while other stories I have read say Pvt. Chen committed suicide because of harassment/social ostracization.
    also involuntary manslaughter.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not talking about the ASVAB here, I'm talking about physical and psychological evaluations by the doctors at MEPS. Maybe things are different now than they were then, I'm no expert.
    Evals at MEPS? Screening perhaps, and that routinely fails in all contexts. Most nutbags are identified and dealt with during Basic, I figure. Can't catch 'em all.

    ps. No idea about this case, just sayin'.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Yep, and I think they asked those at the recruitment office too...before you signed.

    nope, not me...i never went to a recruiting station..the recruiter came to my house

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    I find it kind of weird that everybody is talking about psych evaluations here, almost if we are assuming that people in the military don't have the same kind of distribution of bad people that exist in civilian life. Murder happens in civilian life. Murder also happens in military life. People are people, no matter the situation. Here is the way I see it - 8 gangstas committed murder. Convict them and lock 'em up. End of story. Charge the Lieutenant with conspiracy and lock him up too.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I find it kind of weird that everybody is talking about psych evaluations here, almost if we are assuming that people in the military don't have the same kind of distribution of bad people that exist in civilian life. Murder happens in civilian life. Murder also happens in military life. People are people, no matter the situation. Here is the way I see it - 8 gangstas committed murder. Convict them and lock 'em up. End of story. Charge the Lieutenant with conspiracy and lock him up too.
    How did they commit this murder? Which of the 8 did what?

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Sounds like the result of a severe failure in leadership and unit cohesion. If these guys are found guilty, then the 1LT should be stripped of his commission and all the noncoms should be busted down to private.
    That's the most disfunctional way to run an army that there is: blaming the actions of others on their leaders.

    If it worked like that, the Army would be made up of nothing but privates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    this is so terribly sad.........and here's are my questions:

    does the military institution breed this kind of pack behavior, and should we start to think about more in depth psychological testing and higher stanards for entrance into the military?




    U.S. News - 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    and you're right, we don't know the facts. but the military does, and they've deemed this to be negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter.
    Yeah! It's the Army's fault!

    It's not like this happens in the civilian world...hell, in high school even.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 8 US soldiers charged in death of fellow GI

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's the most disfunctional way to run an army that there is: blaming the actions of others on their leaders.

    If it worked like that, the Army would be made up of nothing but privates.
    Uhhh, no. Are you just saying this **** to be different? How exactly is that "the most dysfunctional way to run an army?" In a cohesive unit, leaders are of course responsible for the actions of their subordinates, or at the very least they are accountable for taking care of this kinda **** when it gets out of hand. Who else is gonna do it? You're gonna have the privates police themselves? It is precisely the job of leaders to keep this kinda **** from happening.

    And your argument completely fails upon the fact that some of these so-called leaders are actually charged with the act of negligent homicide itself. Some of these guys weren't simply the enablers, they are the alleged perpetrators.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 12-21-11 at 09:31 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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