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Thread: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

  1. #51
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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Can you source this? #41 seems to contradict these assertions.
    Review & Outlook: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco - WSJ.com
    John Boehner’s leadership mess on the payroll tax cut - Post Leadership - The Washington Post
    Mitch McConnell?s silence leaves John Boehner out on a limb - Manu Raju and John Bresnahan - POLITICO.com

    I dunno. There are a ton. It's been all over the news for a week or so. If there is something specific that you don't find in there that you want a source for, and you can't find it googling, let me know and I'll look more.

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You're mixing a lot of things up. First off, trickle down is about the RICH getting tax cuts, not the middle class. This isn't trickle down. The idea with trickle down is that you give the rich more money, they invest more of it, that spurs the economy. That is definitely true. Nobody disagrees with that all things being equal. The problem with the theory is that investment alone can't fuel the economy. You also need consumer spending, and consumer spending comes from the middle class having money. So, by trying to force too much of the money into the pockets of the rich, the right screwed up the economy. The tradeoff costs of ramming all that money into the pockets of the rich got out of control. Massive deficits, cutting safety net spending, etc. We had a ton of investment, but very little consumer spending because they were screwing the middle class. This is fixing that.
    Something kinda like, "consumer spending", eh?



    The pipeline. LOL. 20,000 jobs... This is 1 MILLION jobs at least. 20,000 jobs is basically nothing at the national level.
    That would put Obama at a net 20,000 jobs for his term. If it were me...I would go for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    At this point might as well call the vote. But I'd wait till Barry takes off for his taxpayer subsidized, 17 day romp to Hawaii then blame demos for not getting back to sign it.

    J-mac
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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I dunno. There are a ton. It's been all over the news for a week or so. If there is something specific that you don't find in there that you want a source for, and you can't find it googling, let me know and I'll look more.
    Per you links:
    Senate Republicans say Mr. Boehner had signed off on the two-month extension’
    Review & Outlook: The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco - WSJ.com

    the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page calls into question whether Boehner will be Speaker come 2013 and is saying that he reportedly “flipped” his position on the proposal within 24 hours, following a revolt by his members’ a link to the above article, no new source.

    John Boehner’s leadership mess on the payroll tax cut - Post Leadership - The Washington Post

    Believing that Boehner was on board and that the House would easily approve the extension…But Boehner has adamantly denied that he backed the McConnell-Reid deal.


    Mitch McConnell?s silence leaves John Boehner out on a limb - Manu Raju and John Bresnahan - POLITICO.com

    Based on the Politico link, the assertion made in #41 was supported. I have Googled this and found no evidence that support the assertions you made (you made them, why should I source them):

    1. McConnell, Reid and Boehner entered negotiations after that bill went to the senate.
    2. Boehner gave his proxy to McConnell, meaning that he would let McConnell negotiate on his behalf.
    3. Boehner publicly announced that he would abide by whatever they decided.
    4. When it came out that it might just be for 2 months, he said that was fine
    5. When the senate …agreed on a deal, everybody, including Boehner said it was great …
    6. Supposedly Boehner gave McConnell a high five right after the meeting
    7. Then, right after the senate left, Boehner was approached by the tea party caucus who apparently threatened an all out revolt.

    So the 'Senate Republicans said' or 'The Wall Street Journel is saying' trumps Boehner speaking for himself?

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    The Senate bill proposes to pay for their PR tax cuts by:

    Sec. 401 Guarantee Fees
    This section increases the guarantee fees that are charged to mortgage lenders by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by 10 basis points.
    Sec. 402 FHA Guarantee Fees
    The Federal Housing Administration is required to increase the annual premium charged to homeowners by an amount equal to the increase at the GSEs.
    Note: The total savings achieved in Title IV is $35.7 billion over ten years.
    Summary of the Two-Month Payroll Tax Cut Extension | Senate Democrats

    The House bill contained a similar provision. The FM/FM fee increase are borne by lenders. These increased fees are customarily passed on to mortgage recipients/holders (homeowners). Considering the current housing/mortgage challenges does this seem prudent? The FHA part is an increase to homeowners via their mortgages. Does this seem prudent? I mean really, haven’t homeowners/mortgage holders been beat up enough in the last three years? What am I missing?

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Senate Republicans say Mr. Boehner had signed off on the two-month extension’
    Are you saying you think that the senate Republicans and Democrats are all lying about what commitment Boehner made to them?

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Are you saying you think that the senate Republicans and Democrats are all lying about what commitment Boehner made to them?
    I don't know as I didn't hear either the 'Senate Republicans and Democrats' OR Boehner say anything in person. Boehner is saying they did. In the end it is irrelevant as we are where we are. Applying blame WILL NOT solve this issue and all those participating are delaying the desired result. Essentially this is another fine example of political posturing that BOTH sides are well accomplished at.

    You made 7 other claims that I still have not found a source to substantiate.

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    I don't know as I didn't hear either the 'Senate Republicans and Democrats' OR Boehner say anything in person. Boehner is saying they did. In the end it is irrelevant as we are where we are. Applying blame WILL NOT solve this issue and all those participating are delaying the desired result. Essentially this is another fine example of political posturing that BOTH sides are well accomplished at.

    You made 7 other claims that I still have not found a source to substantiate.
    I feel like you haven't been reading the news for the past week... This whole drama has been unfolding on the front pages of every news site all week. The articles I gave you laid out the same story I'm saying. The only one that seems contentious is that Boehner is apparently denying that he committed to abide by the agreement. The rest is non-controversial and universally reported. And the Boehner denial flies in the face of what everybody else, including the Republican big wigs in the senate, is saying, so I think we can safely assume he's just trying to cover his ass on that one.

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The rest is non-controversial and universally reported. And the Boehner denial flies in the face of what everybody else, including the Republican big wigs in the senate, is saying,
    If you are correct it should be no problem providing sources that NAME these ‘Republican big wigs in the Senate’ as they are so ‘universally reported’. So far all I have seen is ‘sources say’ or ‘Senate Republicans say’, etc. Boehner on the other hand made the denial ‘universally’. This smells of a scapegoat scenario much like the ‘90’s Newt ordeal. But again, this is a waste of time debating. Do you have opinions specific to the various options in the two bills proposed?

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    If you are correct it should be no problem providing sources that NAME these ‘Republican big wigs in the Senate’ as they are so ‘universally reported’. So far all I have seen is ‘sources say’ or ‘Senate Republicans say’, etc. Boehner on the other hand made the denial ‘universally’. This smells of a scapegoat scenario much like the ‘90’s Newt ordeal. But again, this is a waste of time debating. Do you have opinions specific to the various options in the two bills proposed?
    A scapegoat? That doesn't make sense. What would they be scapegoating him for? They passed the bill 89-10 in the senate. All the players had signed off. All he needed to do was call a vote and he refused. You can't "scapegoat" somebody for their own actions.

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