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Thread: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Reading further does nothing to support your contention that "The House bill NEVER had a requirement that Obama approve the pipeline. "

    Clearly the bill does have that requirement. That it also has a loophole, that the Republicans might want to argue about, does not mean the requirement does not exist.

    The sum of the language is that Obama must approve the pipeline unless he comes up with a pre-defined excuse (national interest), which he must explain to congress.

    If you want to read a little further, you'll also see that if Obama does nothing, then the pipeline becomes approved automatically. Is the intent of this language really all that hard to decipher?
    I really can't believe you had the nerve to type this. This is one of the most moronic replies I've ever seen.

    Try and grasp this:

    Obama must approve the pipeline, UNLESS he doesn't want to. If he doesn't approve it, he has to tell Congress why. He can not approve it for any reason he feels like, tell Congress why, and then tell them to go pound sand if they don't like it.

    I fully expect Obama to NOT approve the pipeline because he thinks he has to cowtail to his far left environmental base. Republicans simply wanted to force him to make a decision before the election because they will pound him with it if he doesn't approve it.

    Why don't you simply admit you were 100% wrong and drop it.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    If this payroll tax cut is "good policy" and should be extended, why isn't the rate cut to 0%?

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I really can't believe you had the nerve to type this. This is one of the most moronic replies I've ever seen.

    Try and grasp this:

    Obama must approve the pipeline, UNLESS he doesn't want to. If he doesn't approve it, he has to tell Congress why. He can not approve it for any reason he feels like, tell Congress why, and then tell them to go pound sand if they don't like it.

    I fully expect Obama to NOT approve the pipeline because he thinks he has to cowtail to his far left environmental base. Republicans simply wanted to force him to make a decision before the election because they will pound him with it if he doesn't approve it.

    Why don't you simply admit you were 100% wrong and drop it.
    In other words, it is -- ONCE AGAIN -- a juvenile political ploy. Republicans don't give a **** whether or not it's approved. They just want to throw it in Obama's face either way. Gee, I wonder why Democrats objected to it?

    Unfortunately Republicans are badly off their game. The permit will be denied for the perfectly understandable reason that they didn't provide enough time to evaluate the project. Net result? Republicans look like idiots, again, environmentalists are happy, and the unions who support the pipeline will blame Republicans instead of Obama. Brilliant.

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    In other words, it is -- ONCE AGAIN -- a juvenile political ploy. Republicans don't give a **** whether or not it's approved. They just want to throw it in Obama's face either way. Gee, I wonder why Democrats objected to it?

    Unfortunately Republicans are badly off their game. The permit will be denied for the perfectly understandable reason that they didn't provide enough time to evaluate the project. Net result? Republicans look like idiots, again, environmentalists are happy, and the unions who support the pipeline will blame Republicans instead of Obama. Brilliant.
    Of course, and the American public will hear about the jobs Obama killed throughout the midwest, as well as in South Carolina, for the next 10 months.

    Doesn't matter what the unions think, only what the members do. And there is often a big difference in the two.

    And don't give me that holier than thou crap. You know the Dems do the same thing.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Yes, carry on, you bastion of Liberalism, the Wall Street Journal.

    Ranting about everthing being some kind of evil Leebrul plot is getting old.
    It's the new little black dress that goes with everything for any event.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Of course, and the American public will hear about the jobs Obama killed throughout the midwest, as well as in South Carolina, for the next 10 months.

    Doesn't matter what the unions think, only what the members do. And there is often a big difference in the two.

    And don't give me that holier than thou crap. You know the Dems do the same thing.
    They will hear about the jobs (few and temporary though they may be) that Republicans killed in their endless game of putting electoral politics above the good of the country. I'm really starting to think we may see a Democratic blowout in 2012.

    Boehner's autobiography should be titled, "How to **** Up a Wet Dream".

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill, replying to Karl View Post
    [...] Why don't you simply admit you were 100% wrong and drop it.
    It would be moronic for me to admit that I was wrong when your claim -- "The House bill NEVER had a requirement that Obama approve the pipeline." -- has been so clearly debunked.

    "the president ... shall grant a permit ..."

    Like, duh.

    Sure, there is a loophole, which if utilized you can rest assured that the Republicans would try to dispute, render ineffective, and claim the president has not acted in accordance with the bill and therefore the pipeline permit is issued automatically (by additional text in the bill).

    The word "shall" is an imperative. I can explain that further if you wish to dispute the import of that word. However, empty belligerent rhetoric such as you have provided above does not consist of reasoned argument, so as far as I'm concerned your claim is debunked, period. That you do not concur is irrelevant, since my participation in the debate is not to convince you, but to convince those on the sidelines.

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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    They will hear about the jobs (few and temporary though they may be) that Republicans killed in their endless game of putting electoral politics above the good of the country. I'm really starting to think we may see a Democratic blowout in 2012.

    Boehner's autobiography should be titled, "How to **** Up a Wet Dream".
    You actually think that the public will blame Boehner for lost jobs if Obama kills the pipeline ????

    Now that's a wet dream.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    It would be moronic for me to admit that I was wrong when your claim -- "The House bill NEVER had a requirement that Obama approve the pipeline." -- has been so clearly debunked.

    "the president ... shall grant a permit ..."

    Like, duh.

    Sure, there is a loophole, which if utilized you can rest assured that the Republicans would try to dispute, render ineffective, and claim the president has not acted in accordance with the bill and therefore the pipeline permit is issued automatically (by additional text in the bill).

    The word "shall" is an imperative. I can explain that further if you wish to dispute the import of that word. However, empty belligerent rhetoric such as you have provided above does not consist of reasoned argument, so as far as I'm concerned your claim is debunked, period. That you do not concur is irrelevant, since my participation in the debate is not to convince you, but to convince those on the sidelines.
    pssst.... if the bill "required" that he approve the pipeline, they would not have included a method for him NOT to approve it.

    You are not accustomed to reading legalese are you. Shall does not mean one has to do a certain thing if there are exceptions included. Why is that so hard to grasp???

    Here's another bit of information for you........ Doesn't matter if the Republicans, or anyone else, tried to dispute his decision. He and he alone has the final say. That can't be taken away from him by this bill or any other law. It also means he will have to face the consequences from the voters though.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama says Senate plan ‘only viable way’ to prevent tax hike

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I was speaking of what was being presented here, by people here.


    It has a element of truth. The GOP has been trying to reduce (or maintain) the tax load of the wealthy while trying to increase the tax load on the middle class and the poor -- such as all those intellectually dishonest claims from the right about the bottom 47% not paying any federal income taxes being an affront to 'fairness'.

    Other examples are the so-called 'fair tax', which would increase the tax load on the poor while arguably reducing the tax load on the rich, as well as the so-called 'flat tax' which would increase the tax load on the poor, and of course the now defunct (I suppose) Herman Cain 9-9-9 plan. So yes, definitely, if you are on the lower end of the income spectrum then the GOP is indeed trying to increase your taxes -- often at the benefit of the rich.
    Everyone, I think, is attempting to make the system more fair.... I think the main difference is what your definition of fair is. I think fair is taking a flat percentage of what EVERYONE makes, while all the while working hard to contain spending so that the percentage stays as low as possible. If the tax code stands up to the Equal Protection clause- and is applied to EVERYONE the same way, then I think a good argument can be made that it is fair. If you take a higher percentage from the wealthy and use it to supplement tax cuts for the middle and lower class workers, how is that "fair?"

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