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Thread: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

  1. #201
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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No. Go back in the thread and see for yourself.

    Here's the bottom line - Gill claimed that one house routinely passes bills from the other house without making any changes. That's bull****.

    And that's what he showed you, because that's what you asked for( see your quote from post 134 above ). Now you are stating that the instant a bill has a change within a single house, it doesn't count as an "non-altered bill between houses". That's not what you asked for, and that's not what he gave you.

    He gave you a list of bills that once passed a chamber, were not changed and passed the other chamber.

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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Then why don't you stop posting the drivel.... or you could mind your own business.



    So what, it was a bill passed by both houses with no amendments, which was the subject of the discussion.
    Umm, no. That wasn't the subject.


    So what. Trade bills were not excluded from the original discussion.
    Umm, yes they were. I guess some people need everything explained to them in explicit detail



    You are correct on this one.
    Thanks


    What the hell are you babbling about???? HR 1473 was the Department of Defense and Full-Year Continuing Appropriations Act, 2011, hardly a bill on tariffs,
    You are right. I must have looked up the wrong #. Unfortunately, Appropriation bills are subject to input from all members of Congress, and not simply written by one side, and voted on by the other party.


    So what? The final version was passed by both houses with no amendments.
    Again, that bill was subject to input from all members of congress.


    So what? The final version was passed by both houses with no amendments.
    Again, that bill was subject to input from all members of congress.


    So what? I claimed that bills were frequently passed by both houses with no amendments. I never claimed that no amendments were added in committee before it was passed by both houses.
    No, you were arguing that one part of congress should just vote on a bill that they had no input in writing, without giving any consideration to amending it. In the examples you gave, both houses of congress had a hand in drafting the legislation. You're just trying to BS your way through by rewording and pretending it matches the current circumstances where you think that one part of congress should have no opportunity to amend the legislation.


    Total fail on your part. That's what happens when you jump into a dispute between posters that you know nothing about.
    We're still waiting for you to come up with an example that compares with the current circumstances.

    Hope you learned a lesson. By the way, I noticed you didn't mention the Healthcare Reform Act. Couldn't you think of any snarky excuses??
    Yes, I learned that instead of citing an example where one house of congress drafted legislation and the other side just voted on it without having any input, you would rather post dishonest blather. However, I already knew that before you wrote that last post
    Last edited by sangha; 12-28-11 at 12:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #203
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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    And that's what he showed you, because that's what you asked for( see your quote from post 134 above ). Now you are stating that the instant a bill has a change within a single house, it doesn't count as an "non-altered bill between houses". That's not what you asked for, and that's not what he gave you.

    He gave you a list of bills that once passed a chamber, were not changed and passed the other chamber.
    You are misinterpreting the discussion with a singular quote taken out of context. Here's what MM asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No chamber ever votes on the other chamber's bills with "no changes" unless it is extremely non-controversial legislation. Why would they do that? The point of considering a bill is to consider changes to it. Are you suggesting the Senate should have held a vote on the bill without allowing any amendments to it?

    Stop pretending you know what you're talking about or that you have a point. You are hanging your hat on a piece of useless, irrelevant information as if it matters. Now that is childish.
    In the quote you posted, MM obviously shortened his request to avoid having to type the same thing over and over and save time. Quoting that as if it were what he requested was dishonest. From the beginning, MM clearly requested an example wher one house passed a bill written by the other house without making any changes. Those "changes" he mentioned were not limited to "amendments" voted on by the entire house of congress. They also included changes made in committee, or changes made in negotiations, or any other changes made at any time. The Obamacare bill was not "original House legislation". It was written with input from both houses of congress.

    Your post wasn't honest enough to admit that, but Gill's response to MM's post (the one I just quoted) made it clear that Gill was in agreement about the subject of the dispute. To wit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Yes, actually it happens all the time.

    Yes, they should have definitely voted on the original House bill with no amendments.
    Please note that Gill starts out by claiming "it" (ie "One chamber voting on the other chamber's bills with 'no changes'") happens "all the time"

    Also note that Gill corroborates the condition by stating that the Senate should have voted on the "original" House bill.

    Then, in spite of his claim that "it happens all the time", instead of coming up with examples of same, he gives examples of both houses voting on legislation that were not "original" House bills. Trade treaties do not "originate" in the House. Presidents negotiate them. Appropriation bills do "originate" in the House, but are changed with input from all members of congress, including members of the senate, who can and DO amend them.

    And just to be clear that we're talking accurately about what Gill claimed, here's another quote from Gill talking about the "original" House bill
    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It took long enough for you to admit you were wrong. The bill passed by the House was never voted on in its original form by the Senate.

    Even your liberal buddy Justabubba agrees with me.

    Maybe now, Gill will post an example of the Senate voting on a non-controversial piece of legislation from the House in its original form.


    Or maybe not
    Last edited by sangha; 12-28-11 at 01:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #204
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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I had a feeling you'd display your ignorance.

    No, none of these were passed with no amendment. That's absurd.

    The amendment were simply made at the committee level, or in an informal process to create a "manager's amendment" or some other process. Then the ENTIRE BILL was replaced (technically - amended!) to reflect those changes. I explained how this works earlier - remember "amendment in the nature of a substitute?"

    Seriously, did you really believe that these bills were simply swallowed whole without any changes by the other chamber? That's ridicuous. You simply don't know how the process works and you aren't willing to figure it out.
    I knew you were dishonest which is why I should have ignored you. I never claimed that the Senators don't change Senate bills before voting on them or that the House doesn't change House bills before they vote on them. I said, and now have proved, that some bills passed by the Senate are approved by the House with no amendments and vice versa.

    To claim that bills are mysteriously written in pristine form in either house in one attempt is ludicrous and I never made any such claim.

    What is "ridicuous" is that you refuse to admit you were wrong. The bills I posted were passed by both Houses and signed by the President with no amendments requiring reconciliation. That was my claim and I have proven it.

    I have not only proven you wrong, but have exposed you as a dishonest poster. You can not make a claim, then decide to change it after being proven wrong without looking like a fool, so I suggest you leave and go home to lick your wounds.

    You are dismissed.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  5. #205
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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Maybe now, Gill will post an example of the Senate voting on a non-controversial piece of legislation from the House in its original form.


    Or maybe not
    Already did.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I knew you were dishonest which is why I should have ignored you. I never claimed that the Senators don't change Senate bills before voting on them or that the House doesn't change House bills before they vote on them. I said, and now have proved, that some bills passed by the Senate are approved by the House with no amendments and vice versa.

    To claim that bills are mysteriously written in pristine form in either house in one attempt is ludicrous and I never made any such claim.

    What is "ridicuous" is that you refuse to admit you were wrong. The bills I posted were passed by both Houses and signed by the President with no amendments requiring reconciliation. That was my claim and I have proven it.

    I have not only proven you wrong, but have exposed you as a dishonest poster. You can not make a claim, then decide to change it after being proven wrong without looking like a fool, so I suggest you leave and go home to lick your wounds.

    You are dismissed.
    You are now denying your original claim, which was that the Senate passes House bills in their original form "all the time"

    You have exposed yourself with dishonest posts. You can not make a claim, then decide to change it after being proven wrong without looking foolish, so I suggest you take your own advice
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Already did.
    Nope

    None of the bills you cited were bills "in the original House form". Trade bills do not originate in the House. Appropriations are changed with input from both houses before being voted on. Obamacare was subject to input from both houses
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #208
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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are now denying your original claim, which was that the Senate passes House bills in their original form "all the time"

    You have exposed yourself with dishonest posts. You can not make a claim, then decide to change it after being proven wrong without looking foolish, so I suggest you take your own advice
    Getting testy now, eh. Being shown to be a liar makes some people that way. I suggest you go away and cool off before you make an even bigger fool out of yourself.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nope

    None of the bills you cited were bills "in the original House form". Trade bills do not originate in the House. Appropriations are changed with input from both houses before being voted on. Obamacare was subject to input from both houses
    Then he should have stipulated that these types of bills were not to be included in the discussion.

    He didn't.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Boehner demands Senate cancel its vacation

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    And that's what he showed you, because that's what you asked for( see your quote from post 134 above ). Now you are stating that the instant a bill has a change within a single house, it doesn't count as an "non-altered bill between houses". That's not what you asked for, and that's not what he gave you.

    He gave you a list of bills that once passed a chamber, were not changed and passed the other chamber.
    It's called moving the goal posts. It's all they have at this point.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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