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Thread: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

  1. #581
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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I've already supported it from several different sources, here are additional sources:

    "Krugman and journalist Timothy Noah have referred to this period after 1979 as the “Great Divergence.”[18] During this time income became more unequal almost continuously except during the recessions in 1990-91 and 2001.[26] One difference in the income of high-income taxpayers between the two eras is that labor income has become a larger share of their income while capital income (interest, dividends, income from rent) a much smaller one.[27]"

    "In 2011 the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) did a study of the change in income inequality in America ("Trends in the Distribution of Household Income Between 1979 and 2007"). (It chose the two years because they both preceded an economic recession and so both were periods of "similar overall economic activity"

    "The study found two factors accounting for the changing distribution of market (before tax) income: an increase in the concentration of each source of income (different sources being: labor income, business income, capital gains, interest, etc.); and a shift in the share of income in the economy coming from sources that disproportionately go to top earners. Between 1979 and 2007 more income came from capital gains and business income, and less from labor (cash wages, salaries, employer-paid health insurance premiums, etc.)."

    "A study by Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez found that
    Large reductions in tax progressivity since the 1960s took place primarily during two periods: the Reagan presidency in the 1980s and the Bush administration in the early 2000s.[125]
    During Republican President Ronald Reagan's tenure in office the top marginal income tax rate was reduced from over 70 to 28 percent, high top marginal rates like 70% being the sort in place during much of the period of great income equality following the “Great Compression”.[124] Progressivity of income tax and the (effective) rate at which income is taxed can have an effect on equality."

    Income inequality in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "The Internal Revenue Service issues an annual report on the 400 highest income-tax payers. In 1961, there were 398 taxpayers who made $1 million or more, so I compared their income tax burdens from that year to 2007.

    Despite skyrocketing incomes, the federal tax burden on the richest 400 has been slashed, thanks to a variety of loopholes, allowable deductions and other tools. The actual share of their income paid in taxes, according to the IRS, is 16.6 percent. Adding payroll taxes barely nudges that number.

    Compare that to the vast majority of Americans, whose share of their income going to federal taxes increased from 13.1 percent in 1961 to 22.5 percent in 2007.

    9 Things The Rich Don't Want You To Know About Taxes
    You have yet to show that the middle class have had their taxes raised.
    Show me this, you have not done this.

    You're just ranting about income inequality and you are not proving what you said.
    Hell I posted the numbers for you, from the source you used in that image graph.

    Just admit what you said, wasn't true.

    Edit:
    The image graph you posted, shows that your statement was untrue.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 12-24-11 at 05:27 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #582
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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Your challenge is to support this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Over the last 30 years tax rates have been increased for the middle class and cut for the wealthy.
    So you post this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Krugman and journalist Timothy Noah …During this time income became more unequal almost continuously except during the recessions in 1990-91 and 2001.[26] One difference in the income of high-income taxpayers between the two eras is that labor income has become a larger share of their income while capital income…a much smaller one.[27]"
    This says NOTHING about tax rates being increased. The article focuses on the different sources of income between the different earner classes.

    "In 2011 the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) did a study of the change in income inequality in America …
    This study again focuses on income inequality not on the tax rates you profess.

    "A study by Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez found that
    Large reductions in tax progressivity since the 1960s took place primarily during two periods …the top marginal income tax rate was reduced from over 70 to 28 percent, high top marginal rates like 70% …Progressivity of income tax and the (effective) rate at which income is taxed can have an effect on equality."
    This study DOES discuss tax rates but only on the top bracket. There is nothing that discusses middle class rates.


    Despite skyrocketing incomes, the federal tax burden on the richest 400 has been slashed, thanks to a variety of loopholes, allowable deductions and other tools. The actual share of their income paid in taxes, according to the IRS, is 16.6 percent. Adding payroll taxes barely nudges that number.

    Compare that to the vast majority of Americans, whose share of their income going to federal taxes increased from 13.1 percent in 1961 to 22.5 percent in 2007.
    This article discusses the percentage of income going to federal taxes but in no place does it claim ‘tax rates have been increased for the middle class’ which you espouse. Further, this article is misleading by using 'federal taxes' and not 'federal income taxes'. Of course the federal tax percentage is greater on lower incomes because FICA taxes are level on all earners up to about $106k, which low/middle class earners do not achieve. Those earning above $106k do not have FICA witheld which distorts the percentage of 'taxes paid/income'. Ultimately the basis of benefit amount is determined by how much is paid in and not income level.

    I agree that the rates on the upper bracket have been reduced but not the middle class. The BTC lowered rates on ALL brackets which contradicts your point flatly. Please, try again.

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Please .... we had much higher tax rates for the Rich than anything proposed by the Democrats today under Republican presidents, Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford
    Yeah those "Republican" congresses were responsible for those FDR era confiscatory rates

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Please .... we had much higher tax rates for the Rich than anything proposed by the Democrats today under Republican presidents, Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford

    What party controlled congress during these times? Presidents don't do anything other than sign or veto.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast
    I would agree with you...but your assuming im a socialist...I am not...Im just against the rape of the working class that is being perpetrated on the middleclass by the corporations and their CEOS for an extra buck...all the evidence of that is plainly right out there...
    First off, I am NOT saying you are a Socialist, merely that the road to arrive at serfdom is not limited to an upper class being more successful. We are not a Monarchy, Dictatorship, or Communist state.....Yet. Secondly, I have yet to hear one proponent of the current class warfare in here adequately explain how it is in a country with constant upward mobility, and free market how someone more successful than you is keeping you down. Can you explain that for me please?


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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Please .... we had much higher tax rates for the Rich than anything proposed by the Democrats today under Republican presidents, Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford
    Yes, we did but we had FAR fewer earners in those upper brackets back then. Per the links you provided ‘In 1961, there were 398 taxpayers who made $1 million or more’. Adjusted for inflation $1m in 2009 was $7.2m. Per the 2009 IRS data there were 14,322 earners $5m-$10m and 8,274 above $10m. So if the base gets broader doesn’t it seem logical that the rates can be reduced? Or is it you contention that if there are more ‘rich’ people we need to tax them more to prevent their increase in wealth?

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Yes, we did but we had FAR fewer earners in those upper brackets back then. Per the links you provided ‘In 1961, there were 398 taxpayers who made $1 million or more’. Adjusted for inflation $1m in 2009 was $7.2m. Per the 2009 IRS data there were 14,322 earners $5m-$10m and 8,274 above $10m. So if the base gets broader doesn’t it seem logical that the rates can be reduced? Or is it you contention that if there are more ‘rich’ people we need to tax them more to prevent their increase in wealth?

    That is amazing! Just under 400 people making over a million dollars in 1961 and toady there are over 22,500? That would be over 50 times the amount of people off the top of my head making a million or more dollars today. Wow! There is hope Virginia. Tell me again libs how capitalism doesn't work, or how the money supply is static and the man is keeping us down.......?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is amazing! Just under 400 people making over a million dollars in 1961 and toady there are over 22,500? That would be over 50 times the amount of people off the top of my head making a million or more dollars today. Wow! There is hope Virginia. Tell me again libs how capitalism doesn't work, or how the money supply is static and the man is keeping us down.......?
    j-mac
    Technically that is not correct. I adjusted the 1961 income for inflation to make an apples to apples comparison. I used the $5m-10m numbers for interpolation as there was no $7.2m segregation. Then number of earners who make $1m or more in 2009 was 236,883 an even more astounding number. But your closing statements are spot on.

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What party controlled congress during these times? Presidents don't do anything other than sign or veto.



    First off, I am NOT saying you are a Socialist, merely that the road to arrive at serfdom is not limited to an upper class being more successful. We are not a Monarchy, Dictatorship, or Communist state.....Yet. Secondly, I have yet to hear one proponent of the current class warfare in here adequately explain how it is in a country with constant upward mobility, and free market how someone more successful than you is keeping you down. Can you explain that for me please?


    j-mac
    It's easy I have explained how over and over how the rich hold down the middle class and poor,Denying the truth to yourself or anyone else will not change it. The stock market is the most obvious way that the rich steal from the poor. Speculating driving up prices on essential life needs like food, gas, clothing any item needed for survival. Lobbying against bills that would discourage the out sourcing of american jobs while voting down bills like the jobs act that would put Americans out of work. Approving bailouts and not holding high ranking company officers for the fraud they have committed. Lobbying against enforcing trade agreements. Trickle down BS economics.

    It's nothing short of a miracle that we still have a middle class in America

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    It's easy I have explained how over and over how the rich hold down the middle class and poor,Denying the truth to yourself or anyone else will not change it.
    Ok, Let's break this down and take your assertions one by one.

    The stock market is the most obvious way that the rich steal from the poor.
    Is the Stock market closed to anyone? Most 401K's in this country are managed through some sort of managed fund that trades on Wall St. and provides a majority of people in this country a retirement income that without the stock market they would not have. So, I would conclude that the stock market enriches those working.

    Speculating driving up prices on essential life needs like food, gas, clothing any item needed for survival.
    Speculation is how business is able to forecast things like materials, fuel, etc. and develop a business plan to add a certainty to doing business for future forecasting.

    Lobbying against bills that would discourage the out sourcing of american jobs while voting down bills like the jobs act that would put Americans out of work.
    Freudian slip there? Anyhow, I know what you mean, it is a well worn talking point from the administration. Look, Obama promised you that Lobbyists were going to be all but outlawed in his administration, and what did you get? An administration filled with lobbyists. Regulation, and taxation, coupled with dumb assed bills like passing a 2 month tax bill are just the sort of uncertainty that are doing more damage to the business sector. No wonder they leave when it is easier to do business else where. Obama has been beating business upside the head his whole term, while demanding that they hire. Who would put up with that long term?


    Approving bailouts and not holding high ranking company officers for the fraud they have committed.
    Obama had his own bailouts didn't he? And how do you feel about the CEO of Fannie taking a multi million dollar golden parachute on his way out with the blessing of Obama?

    Lobbying against enforcing trade agreements.
    Some trade agreements are disadvantageous to this country period.

    It's nothing short of a miracle that we still have a middle class in America
    With Progressives in charge, I agree....One more term of Obama destruction and we won't.....

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, Let's break this down and take your assertions one by one.


    Is the Stock market closed to anyone? Most 401K's in this country are managed through some sort of managed fund that trades on Wall St. and provides a majority of people in this country a retirement income that without the stock market they would not have. So, I would conclude that the stock market enriches those working.

    Retirement account losses near $2 trillion - Business - Personal finance - Your retirement - msnbc.com

    WASHINGTON — Americans' retirement plans have lost as much as $2 trillion — or about 20 percent overall — in the past 15 months, Congress' top budget analyst estimated Tuesday.
    Money does not just disappear does it, so some body gets rich while others lose thier retirement accounts, homes and a portion of every thing they worked for


    Speculation is how business is able to forecast things like materials, fuel, etc. and develop a business plan to add a certainty to doing business for future forecasting.
    Speculation should be regulated to control profits made on life essential needs, profitting by holding on to life essential needs to create shortages is stealing from all of people and is especially hard on the elderly and on the poorest citizens of our country

    Freudian slip there? Anyhow, I know what you mean, it is a well worn talking point from the administration. Look, Obama promised you that Lobbyists were going to be all but outlawed in his administration, and what did you get? An administration filled with lobbyists. Regulation, and taxation, coupled with dumb assed bills like passing a 2 month tax bill are just the sort of uncertainty that are doing more damage to the business sector. No wonder they leave when it is easier to do business else where. Obama has been beating business upside the head his whole term, while demanding that they hire. Who would put up with that long term?
    I didn't indicate one political party they are all guilty of being influenced by lobbyist

    Obama had his own bailouts didn't he? And how do you feel about the CEO of Fannie taking a multi million dollar golden parachute on his way out with the blessing of Obama?
    Again: I didn't indicate one political party they are all guilty of being influenced by lobbyist

    Some trade agreements are disadvantageous to this country period.
    I agree

    With Progressives in charge, I agree....One more term of Obama destruction and we won't.....

    j-mac
    The problems facing the middle class and poor do not seem to be limited to one party

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