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Thread: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Capital gains tax rate being 5% higher wasn't horrible at all, that is the point!!!


    As a matter of fact we were doing better with the higher rate than we have been doing since it was lowered. So forgive me if I don't fall for the whining that once again raising the capital gains tax rate 5% will be devastating.
    how much capital gains income do you have or is just another case of you pretending that tax hikes on OTHERS won't hurt YOU

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how much capital gains income do you have or is just another case of you pretending that tax hikes on OTHERS won't hurt YOU
    Would it change the logic of the argument if he had $10 million in cap gains last year? No.

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't believe in any taxes on income

    but most experts support a lower tax on LTCG as benefiting society

    you seem to be mad that the rich have more LTCG than others and you are apparently upset that all the rich's income is not taxed at 35% even though you cannot articulate a sound economic reason for taxing LTCG at that rate
    I believe in very low taxes on REAL capital gains. In saying that, I draw the distinction between capital gains earned on stock in the aftermarket and real investment capital (money directly invested in a business or an IPO, where proceeds substantially are investment capital.) Moreover, these gains should be earned over TIME; the holding period should be longer than a year, probably three years.

    We should be encouraging investment capital and discouraging high wages (removing retained earnings, hence investment capital from a business). Capital gains taxes should be 10-15% (again, gains on investment capital, not trading stocks), with tax on high wages, say in excess of $1M, at 50%.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 12-21-11 at 01:45 AM.

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how much capital gains income do you have or is just another case of you pretending that tax hikes on OTHERS won't hurt YOU
    You miss the point as usual, a consumer economy cannot prosper, as we have seen, when most of the wealth is concentrated at the top through our tax system that is much less progressive than when we had a strong middle class. It was once believed that reducing the capital gains tax rate would spur investment in US jobs. We have 3 decades to show us that was lie. The trickle down in US jobs ain't happening! We're giving tax breaks to companies that are taking that money and investing it overseas. Tell me why that's in the interest of the middle class?

    And, why should those work for a living pay a higher tax rate on their income to support lower tax rates for those who get most of their income from investments?
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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nope, when we have recovered from the Bush Recession, we should cut spending.
    Not sure if we can still call it the Bush Recession, but whatever.

    They will never cut spending. Even now, when they say they are cutting spending, they are only cutting the rate of the budget growth. Take the "cuts" that were suppose to go into effect when the super committee couldn't make budget recommendations. Those "cuts" were just a slowdown in spending, but the budget was still growing.
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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Not sure if we can still call it the Bush Recession, but whatever.

    They will never cut spending. Even now, when they say they are cutting spending, they are only cutting the rate of the budget growth. Take the "cuts" that were suppose to go into effect when the super committee couldn't make budget recommendations. Those "cuts" were just a slowdown in spending, but the budget was still growing.
    The Recession that Obama inherited was created under the Bush Administration.

    You can't cut spending in a Recession or you make it worse.
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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't believe in any taxes on income

    but most experts support a lower tax on LTCG as benefiting society

    you seem to be mad that the rich have more LTCG than others and you are apparently upset that all the rich's income is not taxed at 35% even though you cannot articulate a sound economic reason for taxing LTCG at that rate
    You still fail to make any argument why we should give a preferential and far more favorable rate to capital gains. An oblique reference to "most experts" does not cut it.
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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Recession that Obama inherited was created under the Bush Administration.

    You can't cut spending in a Recession or you make it worse.
    I agreed Obama inherited a recession that happened during the Bush Administration. Was it created by Bush, No. It was created by a horrible piece of legislation.

    You can't ever cut government spending. Just doesn't happen.
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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Our current tax laws :
    1. Differentiate just about every source imaginable
    2. Include a vast array of different rates
    3. Include a vast array of exclusions, caveats, loopholes, features, etc.

    The argument that somehow captial gains is "bad" *because* it's not treated like <something else> is absurd. See above.

    To argue there should be no differentiation in taxation, is an absolute flat tax. If you prefer that, just come out and say it. If not, then you necessarily imply that exclusions are acceptable. And where you draw the line is then the matter of arbitrary debate.

    This is exactly why some people want a flatter-tax (not an absolute flat tax), they want to discriminate and give the poorest a free-tax break, but they also want to greatly simplify the myriad of complexities that make this sort of back and forth finger pointing absurd and wasteful.

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    Re: Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Our current tax laws :
    1. Differentiate just about every source imaginable
    2. Include a vast array of different rates
    3. Include a vast array of exclusions, caveats, loopholes, features, etc.

    The argument that somehow captial gains is "bad" *because* it's not treated like <something else> is absurd. See above.

    To argue there should be no differentiation in taxation, is an absolute flat tax. If you prefer that, just come out and say it. If not, then you necessarily imply that exclusions are acceptable. And where you draw the line is then the matter of arbitrary debate.

    This is exactly why some people want a flatter-tax (not an absolute flat tax), they want to discriminate and give the poorest a free-tax break, but they also want to greatly simplify the myriad of complexities that make this sort of back and forth finger pointing absurd and wasteful.
    And you also failed utterly to attempt to justify a far more discriminatory rate for capital gains. I am beginning to think it is not possible.... at least from its defenders here whose argument pretty much comes down to 'because it benefits me and mine'.

    Why should not all INCOME - regardless of the source - be subject to the same rate schedules?
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-21-11 at 01:26 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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