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Thread: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

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    Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    WASHINGTON — House Republicans pummeled Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Thursday over the disputed gun-trafficking investigation called Operation Fast and Furious, accusing the Justice Department of hiding the truth and lying to Congress in a slugfest of an oversight hearing. Enlarge This Image

    Stephen Crowley/The New York Times

    Mr. Holder denied the allegations and declared that he would not resign.
    Mr. Holder had testified about Fast and Furious on three prior occasions, and the hearing before the House Judiciary Committee produced few revelations. But it was the most politically charged session yet, as one Republican after another tore into the attorney general.


    Representative F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. of Wisconsin, for example, called for “heads to roll” and threatened to impeach unspecified Obama administration officials. Representative Darrell Issa of California pronounced Mr. Holder in “contempt of Congress” for refusing to turn over certain internal departmental e-mails. Representative Ted Poe of Texas suggested that Justice Department officials should be prosecuted for manslaughter for recklessly allowing guns to fall into the hands of criminals.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/us...d-furious.html

    Anyone else listen to this on C-SPAN yesterday? Amazing. Holder's arrogance, lying, and obfuscation is just beyond belief. This man in my opinion needs to be in jail, and we need to find out what the WH knew. What say you all?


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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Actually, I saw a good portion of it. I also saw good portions of the times Antonio Gonzales testified under the bush administration. It's amazing how much more forthcoming Holder and the Obama administration were. I didn't see him claim "I don't recall" a single time. I think this program was screwed up and not handled well but why you think that means he needs to resign or why that means he's lying I don't know. I'm guessing it's just partisan politics on your part.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Injury kind of understates the consequences of the program....doesn't it? People died as a result of a very stupid operation. An operation that was so stupid, many have questioned whether or not it was intentional. I think those questions are justified.
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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Injury kind of understates the consequences of the program....doesn't it? People died as a result of a very stupid operation. An operation that was so stupid, many have questioned whether or not it was intentional. I think those questions are justified.
    It looks intentional. Last I checked the US has no jurisdiction in Mexico and months later they were trying to further infringe on the 2nd amendment by trying to blame gun dealers for Mexico's cartels getting guns.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Actually, I saw a good portion of it. I also saw good portions of the times Antonio Gonzales testified under the bush administration.
    I am not looking to compare the Bush administration v. the Obama administration. I don't think, unless they were testifying about the very same things that it is comparable at all.

    It's amazing how much more forthcoming Holder and the Obama administration were.
    There was a point at which Holder was being asked about e-mails, and other documentation where Holder and I think it was Issa were talking at the same time, and Issa was asking whether or not there was more documentation/e-mail that was not turned over, and you can hear Holder say "...there may be, but we won't turn that over." You think that is transparent?


    I didn't see him claim "I don't recall" a single time.
    No, instead he shows contempt for the committee, and tells them to pound sand.

    I think this program was screwed up and not handled well but why you think that means he needs to resign or why that means he's lying I don't know.
    Um, because he is lying. There are direct e-mails from one DoJ official to another strategizing how to use this to further gun control legislation, and you don't see a problem with this?

    I'm guessing it's just partisan politics on your part.
    Maintaining constitutional rights should not be a partisan issue. And when you have the administration doing things like this to use as a stick to take them away, it is a problem.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Actually, I saw a good portion of it. I also saw good portions of the times Antonio Gonzales testified under the bush administration. It's amazing how much more forthcoming Holder and the Obama administration were. I didn't see him claim "I don't recall" a single time. I think this program was screwed up and not handled well but why you think that means he needs to resign or why that means he's lying I don't know. I'm guessing it's just partisan politics on your part.
    If Holder isn't lying then why has he been stalling a congressional investigative committee for months? It makes one ask why Holder isn't forthcoming. Who is he covering for? Certainly not a subordinate....

    Then there are only two people left he would impede the process for, especially since 52 House members, one senator, three presidential candidates, and two governors have called for his immediate resignation.

    One would be himself, and the other would have to be the POTUS.
    Last edited by Μολὼν λαβέ; 12-09-11 at 09:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Holder needs to be tried for treason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    DEA getting paid millions in drug money.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/wo...er=rss&emc=rss

    They said agents had deposited the drug proceeds in accounts designated by traffickers, or in shell accounts set up by agents.

    The officials said that while the D.E.A. conducted such operations in other countries, it began doing so in Mexico only in the past few years. The high-risk activities raise delicate questions about the agency’s effectiveness in bringing down drug kingpins, underscore diplomatic concerns about Mexican sovereignty, and blur the line between surveillance and facilitating crime. As it launders drug money, the agency often allows cartels to continue their operations over months or even years before making seizures or arrests.
    Seems to me that the ATF and DEA has become a monster that doesn't serve average Americans.
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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Actually, I saw a good portion of it. I also saw good portions of the times Antonio Gonzales testified under the bush administration. It's amazing how much more forthcoming Holder and the Obama administration were. I didn't see him claim "I don't recall" a single time. I think this program was screwed up and not handled well but why you think that means he needs to resign or why that means he's lying I don't know. I'm guessing it's just partisan politics on your part.
    He's either guilty of knowingly authorizing the distribution of guns to criminals and cartels, or of criminal negligence at best. Nothing "partisan" about it.
    Last edited by a351; 12-10-11 at 09:55 AM.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Anyone else listen to this on C-SPAN yesterday? Amazing. Holder's arrogance, lying, and obfuscation is just beyond belief. This man in my opinion needs to be in jail, and we need to find out what the WH knew. What say you all?


    j-mac
    What did he lie about, tell us? (with links to proof)

    Or is it just his blackness that bothers you?

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