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Thread: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    Lying to a congressional committee is very bad judgement.
    Still no evidence of lying or illegality. Once again, the only thing posted is rightwing whines
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    The origin of "Fast and Furious".

    696. Two bombings to achieve the Patriot Act Bill (12/5/2011)

    In 1990s twice I left US because I couldn’t endure the persecution from the Feds. At that time, the US was still a free country. I bought an air ticket. No one asked a word. There was no security search. It was like a domestic bus trip. That now becomes Alice in Wonderland. It was not the Feds wanted. They needed a power to search and detain without any reason. To achieve that goal, they activated two “terror attacks”.

    The first attempt was OKC bombing. I allege so based on timing. I left US in July 1994 and returned in May 1995. The Feds must have felt the needs of a law to confine their dislikes to travel freely. To get me back to the US, they had dealt with the Chinese secret police. In April, my application to extend my stay in Shanghai was rejected. In same month, OKC bombing took place.

    The evidence now proved the FBI conducted this bombing.

    TERRY NICHOLS IMPLICATES FBI INFORMANT IN BOMBING

    Amazing New Evidence Emerges in Oklahoma Bombing

    By Pat Shannan
    …..
    There are now serious allegations that the FBI, using an informer as a conduit, supplied McVeigh and Nichols with the blasting components the two used to construct explosive devices, one of which may have been employed in the tragic Oklahoma City bombing.
    TERRY NICHOLS IMPLICATES FBI INFORMANT IN BOMBING
    Thursday, August 18, 2011

    Oklahoma City Bombing: FBI Informants Reported on ABC News, McVeigh Defense Team

    FBI informants reporting on the Oklahoma City bombing provided the bureau with leads taken from ABC News and Timothy McVeigh's defense team, according to documents filed in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.

    Oklahoma City Bombing: FBI Informants Reported on ABC News, McVeigh Defense Team | INTELWIRE by J.M. Berger | Research, reporting and analysis on terrorism | Author of Jihad Joe," a new book on American jihadists | Research, Freedom of Information Ac
    In early 2000s, I have learned from a news that said former FBI Chief Louis Freeh had proposed a bill similar to the Patriot Act after OKC bombing but failed to get it go through. I tried to have a google search for that article but failed. The Feds must have sheltered most information that related to their crime. They control information with their cyber team and NSA. Anyhow, I found another information little noticed by the public.

    Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996

    …..
    The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-132, 110 Stat. 1214, (also known as AEDPA) is an act of Congress signed into law on April 24, 1996. ……following the Oklahoma City bombing, and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.[1]

    Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Although the Feds failed to get The Patriot Act in 1996, that AEDPA revealed their intention. Be noticed that the title shows they used terrorism to expand their power five years earlier of 911.

    Next time I left US in March 1999 and returned to the States in July 2000. One year later they bombed WTC. This time they got what they wanted – the Patriot Act.

    The Patriot Act gives the Feds expanded (unreasonable) power of search and arrest. It seems they do not satisfy with this. Now they want to have the power to detain the citizens without trial for life.

    Petition to IMPEACH ALL Senators who Voted for "U.S. is a Battlefield" and to detain U.S. Citizens without trial
    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/892/p...izens-without/

    The New National Defense Authorization Act Is Ridiculously Scary
    David Seaman, Credit Card Outlaw | Nov. 30, 2011,

    Fellow entrepreneurs, Americans, anyone who still cares about this country at all -- this is a must read: By the end of this week, the US government very likely will have the power to lock up US citizens for life at Guantanamo Bay or other military prisons -- without charge and without trial. This means that, in the near future, a controversial Twitter post, attending a peaceful protest, or publishing an anti-Congress critique or anti-TSA rant on Google+ could land you "indefinite detention" for life, in the wording of the bill. No access to a lawyer, no access to trial.
    With this Act, what’s the good for the Constitution?

    697. TSA search, Canada and Mexico (12/11/2011)

    In September 2009, I renewed my passport. In later September I ordered an air ticket to Hong Kong. That night, as usual, I watched the news of the Chinese tv channel KTSF26. I was astonished by a report – it showed how the Feds planting fake notes into innocent passenger’s pocket in airport security check. To propaganda an illegal action of the Feds in positive way was unusual. Obviously it was an intimidation on me – “we wouldn’t let you leave US”. After two bombings(OKC and 911), the Feds got that search power. I canceled the air ticket right away.

    Several days later, on 10/4, my father passed away. I thought it was another intimidation - done by the Feds. However, my father’s death only prompted my decision of leaving. I took a Grey Hound bus to Vancouver on 10/7. I was denied to enter the Canada. No reason was given. I complained to law makers and A.G.. Most had no reply, one suggested to ask help from D.O.J. . Here is the article I wrote about this event two years ago.

    Re: “611. Restricted in US (10/17/09)

    Ten days ago, I was denied to enter the Canada in board check point. Since I have all the document and sufficient fund a tourist should have. I think the board officer was instructed by the misleading information from the US Federal agent. Here is my complain to Attorney General……”

    It was sarcasm for a victim who suffered in a theft case to ask for help from the thief.

    There are three ways for me to leave USA: 1. by air flights. It is now blocked with TSA searches and arrest. (which means a framed case by planting is possible.) 2. through Canada. It was proved being blocked by the collaboration of the Canada government. 3. Through Mexico. The tactic the Feds used is to make it a killing field so when a particularly planned murder happened, it would have been buried in mass slaughtering cases. Those drug killings, was actually a distract tactic.

    After I return home from the Canada board, I started to understand the purpose of OKC bombing and 911 attack. It was for the “search and arrest” power. (for the Feds)

    Then more and more killing cases in Mexico caught my eye. I thought the Feds were behind those killings. They were afraid I would leave US via Mexico. My thought was proved one year later when “Operation Fast and Furious” was revealed. It is conducted by the Feds. The purpose was not to track illegal drug trading but to cover up a possible murder by mass killings. The “Operation Fast and Furious” was created when the Feds found I intended to leave USA. Check the timing.

    Heritage: The Fast and Furious Scandal Continues

    • Posted by Arizona Tea Party on August 31, 2011 at 8:30am
    This is the story of Fast and Furious, and yesterday the latest chapter unfolded when two top officials associated with the operation were removed from their positions, while a third individual resigned.

    The story begins in the fall of 2009,

    http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...ECbecXYaSToNFg
    Since the “fall of 2009”, the media and discussion boards in Internet were full with topics of “TSA”, “pat down”, “see through screen” and bloody killings in Mexico. They had a purpose. If a passenger was arrested for carrying “fake money” or “drugs” or other illegal things, the public would believe “the TSA’s strict searches” and not doubt it’s a planting case. Or no one would have noticed a single murder in Mexico when there are so many beheading, mass slaughtering cases there.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Holder shouldn't resign.

    He should be fired, just like Gonzales and Ashcroft (who was allowed to resign, but should have been fired). It seems like every Attorney General over the past decade has been corrupt, incompetent or both.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Still no evidence of lying or illegality. Once again, the only thing posted is rightwing whines
    Not only is justice blind, but so, apparently, are you.

    fast-and-furious-eric-holder-graveyard-cartoon.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Still no evidence of lying or illegality. Once again, the only thing posted is rightwing whines

    Kind of reminds me at the moment of the Valerie Plame case....too bad there is no "Independent" prosecutor to hang a process charge and declare it done eh?


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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Holder shouldn't resign.

    He should be fired, just like Gonzales and Ashcroft (who was allowed to resign, but should have been fired). It seems like every Attorney General over the past decade has been corrupt, incompetent or both.
    Kudos for the consistency.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    It never ceases to amaze me how often a defense of 1 person in politics becomes "he's not as bad as that other guy" or "the other guy got away with it". It's amazing that otherwise normal human beings resort to this. I think it often comes down to trust - "I think this group has my best interests in mind, so they must have been trying to do the right thing regardless of how it turned out" - "they're my people", etc. If these people made calls that resulted in peoples deaths, they need to be held accountable. If the calls they made were illegal (not just unwise) to begin with, then the penalty is higher because the law only protects the lawful.

    If I lead a military team who fails in their mission because I made bad decisions - I will likely get reprimanded or lose my position altogether. If I lead a military team in plundering or murder, then I need to be held accountable to the law as well - and, if the order came to me from higher up, then the buck stops with the first link in the chain that gave the command (or at least the first one you can prove or who will admit it).

    I can't remember the last time someone said, "Well, OJ got away with murder so this guy should get away with it, too". Somehow, though, if it's politics, it's ok?
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me how often a defense of 1 person in politics becomes "he's not as bad as that other guy" or "the other guy got away with it". It's amazing that otherwise normal human beings resort to this. I think it often comes down to trust - "I think this group has my best interests in mind, so they must have been trying to do the right thing regardless of how it turned out" - "they're my people", etc. If these people made calls that resulted in peoples deaths, they need to be held accountable. If the calls they made were illegal (not just unwise) to begin with, then the penalty is higher because the law only protects the lawful.

    If I lead a military team who fails in their mission because I made bad decisions - I will likely get reprimanded or lose my position altogether. If I lead a military team in plundering or murder, then I need to be held accountable to the law as well - and, if the order came to me from higher up, then the buck stops with the first link in the chain that gave the command (or at least the first one you can prove or who will admit it).

    I can't remember the last time someone said, "Well, OJ got away with murder so this guy should get away with it, too". Somehow, though, if it's politics, it's ok?
    I don't think anyone is really saying that. Most just look for some consitency with the outrage.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think anyone is really saying that. Most just look for some consitency with the outrage.
    Actually, the original quote (below) was exactly that. Roughdraft said that thinking Holder should resign is partisan politics. The comparison is not a defense of Holder, it’s a defense of partisanship. The follow-ups are about the comparison only – not innocence or guilt.

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Actually, I saw a good portion of it. I also saw good portions of the times Antonio Gonzales testified under the bush administration. It's amazing how much more forthcoming Holder and the Obama administration were. I didn't see him claim "I don't recall" a single time. I think this program was screwed up and not handled well but why you think that means he needs to resign or why that means he's lying I don't know. I'm guessing it's just partisan politics on your part. ("Liked" by Boo Radley)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You can't avoid the comparison when so many remember the positions held then. And yes, potential wrong doing and incompetence under examination is comparable regardless of particualr wrong doing and possible incmpetence.
    If Holder did this, he needs to be held accountable. If he was told to do it, whoever told him to do it should also be held accountable. If they knew what they were doing was illegal, prison should be on the table – people died.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: Holder, Grilled on Gun Inquiry, Says He Won’t Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    Actually, the original quote (below) was exactly that. Roughdraft said that thinking Holder should resign is partisan politics. The comparison is not a defense of Holder, it’s a defense of partisanship. The follow-ups are about the comparison only – not innocence or guilt.




    If Holder did this, he needs to be held accountable. If he was told to do it, whoever told him to do it should also be held accountable. If they knew what they were doing was illegal, prison should be on the table – people died.
    You're misreading the quotes. What you quote is about consistency of outrage, as I said. No one above says he should not be held accountable. What was said was that he was more forthcoming than Gonzales (and I would add other Bush administration officals during the time) and that republican outrage is more partisan than based in fact.

    He has a point.

    But nowhere does he say that if guilty Holder should not be held aco****able. He doesn't see the lying or the facts to back up the outrage. There's a difference.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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