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Thread: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

  1. #31
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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I'd rather not, but the fact that you can't accept that a gun can make a situation worse tells me that your take on guns is more fanatical than logical.
    You are misinterpreting what I am saying.

    I am limiting my comment to an active shooter situation which I have studied rather extensively

    in some cases a gun would make things worse. In an active shooter situation where the murderer already is armed and everyone else is unarmed, that is the worst possible situation.

    I understand that many people fear guns and fear their own inability to use them under pressure. I just wish they wouldn't project those issues onto those of us who are properly trained and well skilled

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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You are misinterpreting what I am saying.

    I am limiting my comment to an active shooter situation which I have studied rather extensively

    in some cases a gun would make things worse. In an active shooter situation where the murderer already is armed and everyone else is unarmed, that is the worst possible situation.
    Even though I'm compelled to disagree, I'll just agree that you're right about this specific "active shooter" scenario, however vague that phrase is. This has little to do with my comment and the other comments in this thread that call out the perpetual argument, "If he had a gun, less people would have died." It's a ridiculous argument because it's an absolute that does not take into account the uniqueness of a situation. THAT is the argument I'm talking about and it remains stupid as evidenced by the fact that an armed cop was shot and killed today and many more are everyday.

    I understand that many people fear guns and fear their own inability to use them under pressure. I just wish they wouldn't project those issues onto those of us who are properly trained and well skilled
    You mean like the police officer in this case who was properly trained and well skilled? I'm sure you would love to believe that those of us who understand that a gun can make a situation worse are merely projecting our own fears onto others, but that's just not the case. Just like you have to imagine that anyone who wants higher taxes is jealous of you, you have to imagine that anyone who disagrees with you on this issue is merely projecting something onto the situation.

  3. #33
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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Even though I'm compelled to disagree, I'll just agree that you're right about this specific "active shooter" scenario, however vague that phrase is. This has little to do with my comment and the other comments in this thread that call out the perpetual argument, "If he had a gun, less people would have died." It's a ridiculous argument because it's an absolute that does not take into account the uniqueness of a situation. THAT is the argument I'm talking about and it remains stupid as evidenced by the fact that an armed cop was shot and killed today and many more are everyday.


    You mean like the police officer in this case who was properly trained and well skilled? I'm sure you would love to believe that those of us who understand that a gun can make a situation worse are merely projecting our own fears onto others, but that's just not the case. Just like you have to imagine that anyone who wants higher taxes is jealous of you, you have to imagine that anyone who disagrees with you on this issue is merely projecting something onto the situation.
    Do you honestly believe most police officers are well skilled with guns?

    there are lots of reasons why people want higher taxes on others-most of those reasons are pathetic or nefarious

    but its ALWAYS better to have a gun and NOT need it than not to have one and NEED ONE

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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Do you honestly believe most police officers are well skilled with guns?
    Skilled enough to shoot someone sitting right in front of them, yes.

    but its ALWAYS better to have a gun and NOT need it than not to have one and NEED ONE
    Sure. The point of contention is when a gun is needed and when a gun just makes things worse. Need is not the same thing as feeling better for having one.

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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Skilled enough to shoot someone sitting right in front of them, yes.


    Sure. The point of contention is when a gun is needed and when a gun just makes things worse. Need is not the same thing as feeling better for having one.
    Honestly, you demonstrate you really have almost no knowledge of gun fighting. 90% or more of all gun fights in the USA take place at ranges under 7 yards. what do you think the hit ratio is?

    Here was a gunfight near where I live with State troopers who tend to be elite


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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Meh, you focus on guns too much and the next one we are going to hear about is the Virginia Tech Bombing. This isn't an issue about what is being used to kill, it is an issue about why people are continually choosing to kill.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-09-11 at 12:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Honestly, you demonstrate you really have almost no knowledge of gun fighting. 90% or more of all gun fights in the USA take place at ranges under 7 yards. what do you think the hit ratio is?

    Here was a gunfight near where I live with State troopers who tend to be elite
    You're just proving the point I've been making this entire time: pretending that guns make every situation better is nonsensical. Thank you.

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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You're just proving the point I've been making this entire time: pretending that guns make every situation better is nonsensical. Thank you.
    I was limiting it to the active shooter situation where I am not only correct but in agreement with the leading experts one of whom I have spent hundreds of hours training with

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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    If only the policeman had been armed.

    Oh, wait.
    Are campus police armed at VT?
    usually campus cops are armed with a radio and some keys!!

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    Re: Virginia Tech Shooting: Lockdown After Two Killed, Including a Police Officer

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I was limiting it to the active shooter situation where I am not only correct but in agreement with the leading experts one of whom I have spent hundreds of hours training with
    Then that had nothing to do with the post of mine you were responding to.

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