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Plan B will continue to be offered ONLY behind the counter

Dr_Patrick said:
I don't think anyone is comfortable when their son or daughter is engaging in sexual relations. But it does happen, regardless. It's better to be prepared.
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I would suggest that it's better to attempt to stop the action by making the consequences more unpleasant than the act is pleasant.


Dr_Patrick said:
Your argument would be valid if the only people to suffer the consequences were the ones engaging in the sexual act. However, if they are forced to have a child that is unwanted, then the child suffers in the long run. Trust me, I've known a few people in my life who definitely shouldn't have been parents. The children always end up suffering. Plan B is far more humane, in my opinion.
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Then we're going to have to disagree. Then again I have no problem visiting the punishment for the sins of the father on the child as well.


Khayembii Communique said:
Okay, so do you consider this abortion or not?
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I would, though I am well aware that it does not meet the standard definition thereof.
 
Tigger said:
I would suggest that it's better to attempt to stop the action by making the consequences more unpleasant than the act is pleasant.
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That doesn't always work. People are all about instant gratification. They worry about the consequences later on.


Then we're going to have to disagree. Then again I have no problem visiting the punishment for the sins of the father on the child as well.
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Uh... what? What did the child do wrong? The child had nothing to do with the poor decisions of the parents. Why should the child have to suffer?
 
digsbe said:
Plan B needs to stay behind the counter. It would be absurd to make it an OTC item. In some states the pharmacist can actually write the prescription for you so you can get it if you "need" it.
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thought you were studying pharmacy science
doesn't 'first, do no harm' also apply to you?
read this excerpt from the cite:
... For now, Plan B will stay behind pharmacy counters, available without a prescription only to those 17 and older who can prove their age. ...
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[emphasis added by bubba]
 
justabubba said:
thought you were studying pharmacy science
doesn't 'first, do no harm' also apply to you?
read this excerpt from the cite: [emphasis added by bubba]
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Yes, I am working towards my Doctor of Pharmacy.

Plan B is regulated differently state by state. In Tennessee the patient must be over 18 (or have the consent of their legal guardian if they are a minor). The pharmacist can write a prescription for it (not the physician) and then dispense the medication. I know from firsthand experience that it requires someone prescribing it (at least in my state), but that someone can be the pharmacist at the counter. The article is clearly wrong if it claims plan B does not require a prescription in all states.
 
justabubba said:
wrong assumption. my daughter is 22. i want her to have ready access to this pill should she ever choose to use it
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Ok, and first, thank you for your candor....I re read my questions and thought that I may have been a little presumptuous with them and for that I don't want to offend, but you answered them, and got to what I was trying to ask.

So, if your daughter is 22, then this decision from HHS doesn't apply to her availability to get them. HHS was concerned with young girls, under age getting them and not understanding what, or how their use is effective.

don't know
that is for her to determine
my job, as her dad, is to make life easier for her if i am reasonably able to do so
she advised me that she took the oath to be a virgin until marriage; of course, that was when she was very active in the church. she was quite young then. she and i have also had a discussion about the morality of abortion. again, only an exchange of views. she, as her brother, thinks for herself. it's expected in our family
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As is the case in mine as well. She sounds like a smart young lady with a solid head on her shoulders. You should be proud as I know you are.

kids still laugh about my 14 year old son coming home to find a box of condoms i had placed on his bed
don't know when he because sexually active, but wanted to make sure he had protection if he was (or intended to be)
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I think that reaction is universal...Mine had the same kind of reaction. Ofcourse, before this was undertaken by me, his mother and I both discussed it first.

won't ask. just as i did not when i provided my son a box of condoms and in a subsequent discussion told him that i would get him more, without question, should he indicate a need. (it's intimidating for a young person to buy condoms in a pharmacy)
this was between me and my kids. but my wife and i were both pleased when the doctor prescribed bc pills for my young, teen aged daughter ... presumedly for something other than birth control. she was not happy with my decision to give my son unsolicited condoms
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No doubt. My wife and I are BOTH the parents of our children, and as such she has a say in something like that.

no. when she was a very young teen and told me she took the virgin oath, she seemed quite proud. my fear was that she took it with the other girls at the church because it would have been the way to avoid controversy. i explained to her that was her decision. that if she chose to decide to have sex before marriage all i expected was that she not feel pressured to do so and that she practice safe sex
previously, in scouting, my son was unable to profess a belief in G-d, subsequent to earning the G-d and Me badge. after earning that badge his fellow scouts joined the sponsoring church. the scout master (an attorney) attempted to remove him from the scouts for his refusal to swear a belief in G-d. as a scout leader i was able to intervene and prevent that result. my younger daughter was aware of that incident and i wanted to make sure she was not taking the vow only to avoid what her brother had experienced, for holding to his own views
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The word is God. Not G-d....I find it interesting that you would allow your son to be a part of a organization that its foundation is Christianity and then instead of finding an organization that more closely follows your beliefs on the subject, you force them to alter theirs....Anyway, different topic I know.

would welcome your assessment
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Your kids sound like they turned out fine. We have different approaches and beliefs, but in the end, it is not up to me to judge how you did. Was just curious.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
The word is God. Not G-d....
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I can't speak for Bubba, but many groups use the term G-d out of reverence. Many Jews use this because they believe that in God's holiness it is wrong to type out the full word. It's not a disrespectful thing.
 
digsbe said:
Yes, I am working towards my Doctor of Pharmacy.

Plan B is regulated differently state by state. In Tennessee the patient must be over 18 (or have the consent of their legal guardian if they are a minor). The pharmacist can write a prescription for it (not the physician) and then dispense the medication. I know from firsthand experience that it requires someone prescribing it (at least in my state), but that someone can be the pharmacist at the counter. The article is clearly wrong if it claims plan B does not require a prescription in all states.
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my apologies; i stand corrected
 
digsbe said:
I can't speak for Bubba, but many groups use the term G-d out of reverence. Many Jews use this because they believe that in God's holiness it is wrong to type out the full word. It's not a disrespectful thing.
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Ok, in order to take it in that vein on a message board I would think that some kind of sentence preceding the typing, such as, '...out of reverence, G-d' or something. But you are right, I don't know what is in bubba's heart on the subject, and can only ask if that is why he chose to leave out the "o"....I am sure that now he will say that is the reason after reading your response, and his acknowledgment of "Like" to that post.

j-mac
 
Tigger said:
I am for making those things OPTIONAL, and allowing people to suffer the consequence of their own choices rather than forcing them to do something. I have no problem with using contraceptives. I just don't see them as a "get out of jail free" card that allows you to then say "well, I didn't want to get pregnant so I should be allowed to terminate this pregnancy as a matter of choice."
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Great, so is everybody else on here. I don't see anybody forcing Plan B down any girl's throat. And this forum isn't about terminating a pregnancy. You have no problem with contraceptives??? Then stop whining about Plan B!!
 
j-mac said:
I find it interesting that you would allow your son to be a part of a organization that its foundation is Christianity and then instead of finding an organization that more closely follows your beliefs on the subject, you force them to alter theirs.
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Scouting is actually not based on Christianity at all. The infusion of religion into it only came about in the 1970's, some sixty years after the organization's inception. Prior a massive infusion of money and influence from the Mormon church into scouting, no scout was required to be religious, and scout leaders were told that it would be inappropriate for them to attempt to instruct a scout in religious matters. Many troops are of different faiths, and for many, religion isn't an important part of their activities.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
That doesn't always work. People are all about instant gratification. They worry about the consequences later on.
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Then they get to endure those consequences. Like my mother's best friend growing up in a small town in Minnesota whose family threw her out for getting pregnant before she got married.

Dr_Patrick said:
Uh... what? What did the child do wrong? The child had nothing to do with the poor decisions of the parents. Why should the child have to suffer?
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That's called LIFE. It isn't Fair. It isn't Pleasant. It's just LIFE.


kerussll said:
Great, so is everybody else on here. I don't see anybody forcing Plan B down any girl's throat. And this forum isn't about terminating a pregnancy. You have no problem with contraceptives??? Then stop whining about Plan B!!
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I have no problem with contraceptives used BEFORE the sexual act is carried out. I have MAJOR problems with them being used AFTER the act. I explained this earlier.
 
There are too many unwanted pregnancies around, why prevent something such as a pill that prevents pregnancy? As long as the person taking it has been educated about the particular drug/medication they are taking and are aware of potential dangers then I say give them the liberty to do as they will with their bodies.
 
Calix Chris said:
There are too many unwanted pregnancies around, why prevent something such as a pill that prevents pregnancy? As long as the person taking it has been educated about the particular drug/medication they are taking and are aware of potential dangers then I say give them the liberty to do as they will with their bodies.
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I've got a better idea.... how about preventing the act that caused the pregnancy, instead? I'm sure a good, solid chastity belt would do the trick in most cases. Some solid parenting might even work in some situations.
 
Tigger, I once went to clinic where they give out plan B. I told the woman I spoke to about my situation and she told me that I could take 2 of my regular birth control and 2 again in twelve hours instead of the morning after pill. I don't think it works much different than a large dose of a regular pill, an IUD or even Nuvaring but I could be wrong. I will research it later.

I appreciate that you say that your views are not typical and I realize that no matter the LOGIC and FACT I present you, you will not agree with what I say so I will no longer try to change your opinion and I encourage others to do the same.

I do, however, want some more clarification on your point of before and after? I am just curious as to what distinction you make in your head. Both methods stop the eggs from being fertilized not stopping a fertilization from causing a life. If there were a method, that you took the day after you have sex that works the same way as a pill (whatever that is), would you be alright with it? Are you opposed to the method or the timing? I realize that there is not currently any medicine that acts in this way but it is a hypothetical.
 
Tigger said:
I've got a better idea.... how about preventing the act that caused the pregnancy, instead? I'm sure a good, solid chastity belt would do the trick in most cases. Some solid parenting might even work in some situations.
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I am 21. I am an engineering student. I will graduate with a double major in that in 4.5 years total in college. I consider myself very well raised. I have several friends who were raised with even better parenting than me and completely different. I currently know 1 person who is still a virgin and only about 2 people who were still a virgin by the time we got to college. I don't think parenting makes that big of a difference in this. The LARGE majority of people have sex before they could raise a child. I think it is better to prepare them to deal with problems and be responsible about your choices (Use a condom/ birth control pills/ disease tests) than ignore the fact that it is going to happen. Just my opinion though.
 
lovetosing4678 said:
I do, however, want some more clarification on your point of before and after? I am just curious as to what distinction you make in your head. Both methods stop the eggs from being fertilized not stopping a fertilization from causing a life. If there were a method, that you took the day after you have sex that works the same way as a pill (whatever that is), would you be alright with it? Are you opposed to the method or the timing? I realize that there is not currently any medicine that acts in this way but it is a hypothetical.
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It's a little of both, but the TIMING is a major issue for me. If there were a medication that prevented the fertilization of the egg which could be taken after the sexual act was already over I would be LESS unhappy with it. It still would not be something I would use, would suggest, or would agree with; but it would be better than what I believe we have now. I have been under the impression that this Plan B drug does not stop fertilization but rather prevents the fertilized egg from attaching itself to the uterus. I may be wrong in that regard. Either way, I am not going to be in favor of anything that is used AFTER the consentual act has already been performed.
 
Tigger said:
That's called LIFE. It isn't Fair. It isn't Pleasant. It's just LIFE.
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The same could be said about abortion or Plan B. It seems incredibly selfish to me that you are okay with a child having a potentially horrible life just because you have a moral objection to what some woman you don't know does to her own body.

I have no problem with contraceptives used BEFORE the sexual act is carried out. I have MAJOR problems with them being used AFTER the act. I explained this earlier.
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Oh, I know you did. It still doesn't make sense to me and I still don't agree.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
The same could be said about abortion or Plan B. It seems incredibly selfish to me that you are okay with a child having a potentially horrible life just because you have a moral objection to what some woman you don't know does to her own body.
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Realizing that if my own parents had followed a philosophy similar to what you're promoting there's a damn good chance that I would never have been born; I think I've got a stake in the discussion.

Dr_Patrick said:
Oh, I know you did. It still doesn't make sense to me and I still don't agree.
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That's fine. In this country you have a Constitutionally guaranteed freedom to be wrong.
 
Tigger said:
It's a little of both, but the TIMING is a major issue for me. If there were a medication that prevented the fertilization of the egg which could be taken after the sexual act was already over I would be LESS unhappy with it. It still would not be something I would use, would suggest, or would agree with; but it would be better than what I believe we have now. I have been under the impression that this Plan B drug does not stop fertilization but rather prevents the fertilized egg from attaching itself to the uterus. I may be wrong in that regard. Either way, I am not going to be in favor of anything that is used AFTER the consentual act has already been performed.
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Can you explain why you think the timing of the act makes a difference or is it just one of those things you can't explain?
 
Tigger said:
Realizing that if my own parents had followed a philosophy similar to what you're promoting there's a damn good chance that I would never have been born; I think I've got a stake in the discussion.
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You and many other pro-life people feel that pro-choice people are, in fact, pro-abortion. Whatever your perception of my philosophy is, you are wrong. I am pro-choice, and yet I have a 4 month old child with my wife. Imagine that...
 
tessaesque said:
The following are considered the normal side effects of the pill, which are really no different than many OTC meds:



Now...what happened to me, on the other hand, was something much more severe...

First, I became flu-like. That hit gradually over the course of about 9 hours from taking the first pill. I ate before and after taking the pill, as instructed, but it did little to help me fight nausea. By the 10th hour I was almost projectile vomitting and dry heaving pretty much constantly when my stomach had been completely emptied. That went on pretty consistently for 5 days. I was barely able to remain hydrated, and ever mind trying to get any real nutrition. On top of the nausea I began to have what was probably the most insanely heavy "period" I've ever experienced about two days in to taking the meds. I actually bought Depends to handle the situation. And the cramps....dear god, the cramps. In addition to the muscle fatique from the vomitting I also had cramps that made me feel like my uterus was in a vice grip. They doubled me over in pain at some points.

For reference...I took the pill about 7 hours after the "oops" moment, and during a time when I would have been outside the normal range for optimum fertility within my monthly cycle. Statistically, the odds that the reaction was from the accidental termination of an existing pregnancy were pretty much non-existent, and the pregnancy test had reported negative prior to taking the medication.

Again, as I said before, I'm sure most girls wouldn't experience what I did...but can you imagine going through that kind of reaction alone? Or having to tell your parents about the situation because you're so sick you're afraid you need immediate care?
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Oh good grief honey. I can't even imagine.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
You and many other pro-life people feel that pro-choice people are, in fact, pro-abortion. Whatever your perception of my philosophy is, you are wrong. I am pro-choice, and yet I have a 4 month old child with my wife. Imagine that...
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I do not know of any pro-choice people who are against abortion. To be pro-abortion does not require that you believe in aborting every baby out there. To be pro-choice is to support the use of abortion, whereas pro-life people typically are against the use of abortion.
 
Wake said:
I do not know of any pro-choice people who are against abortion. To be pro-abortion does not require that you believe in aborting every baby out there. To be pro-choice is to support the use of abortion, whereas pro-life people typically are against the use of abortion.
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I see what you are saying, but calling it pro-abortion is dishonest. It makes it sound like you advocate it. I advocate choice. That's it.
 
lovetosing4678 said:
Can you explain why you think the timing of the act makes a difference or is it just one of those things you can't explain?
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Usually speaking both sides in the abortion debate are talking about timing. A fertilized egg no matter how you want to respect it is new life. Plan B does in fact deal with that matter.

Dr_Patrick said:
The same could be said about abortion or Plan B. It seems incredibly selfish to me that you are okay with a child having a potentially horrible life just because you have a moral objection to what some woman you don't know does to her own body
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1. A horrible life is always better than death.
2. There is a new life in play. If you want to play the value game, be my quest, but playing it like the woman is the only one in play is false. It isn't and has never been as simple as it is her body so she gets to do what she wants.
 
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Wake said:
I do not know of any pro-choice people who are against abortion. To be pro-abortion does not require that you believe in aborting every baby out there. To be pro-choice is to support the use of abortion, whereas pro-life people typically are against the use of abortion.
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No pro-choice people are for the legality of abortion, not abortion in and of itself necessarily, for me that is the case.
 
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