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Thread: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    He's advocating alternatives to the four-year college degree. He states, "Getting rid of the BA and replacing it with evidence of competence–treating post-secondary education as apprenticeships..." Alternatives already exist. The economic statistics e.g., employment data, argue strongly against those alternatives. Greater emphasis on assuring that students complete their four-year college education rather than start but never complete it or pursue faddish alternatives would serve students and society best. One cannot ignore the growing importance of knowledge-centered professions and also relative gains being made in higher educational attainment abroad.

    The intellectually lazy approach is for U.S. policy makers or pundits to wring their hands, run up the surrender flag, and argue to do away with higher education. The better approach would be to address the issues that are responsible for subpar attainment of college degrees, even if that means rigorous reform of the primary and secondary education system to assure that students are truly prepared for the rigors of higher education.
    None of that has anything to do with the original article you posted.

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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNBC:



    News Headlines

    This new data further debunks emerging arguments that the U.S. should de-emphasize a college education. It is consistent with the already large body of evidence showing higher lifetime earnings and greater job stability for those who have college degrees.
    They're not talking about college goers - pass or fail. They're talking about teens who drop out of high school and who don't usually go onto college.

    I think it's the other way aorund though: I think the dropping out is reflective of their choices and values in life already - not for everyone - but for many. If they drop out it's because their life was already unraveling. The article suggests that they drop out: and then their life falls apart because of that - which is wrong.

    Drop out rates are alos highly reflective of the age-disparity. . . Once you're age 18 (and usually this is the age for students to be seniors) the sense of 'individual adult' kicks in and many immediately jump ship and try to be independent because - legally - they can. Legally - their parents can't compell them and, being parents, make little effort to lay down their own parental law.

    So - Instead of stitching this together with college statistics. . .this should be stitched together with trying to figure out ways of circumventing the reasons why students drop out and trying to shorten the amount of time you're expected to spend in school is definitely worth looking into.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 12-07-11 at 10:45 PM.
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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Also, while I do not discount that those who drop out are more likely going to cost taxpayers more than those who graduate from High School (which is what this article is about) one has to take the numbers with at least a skewed view as it's being presented by a group with something to gain.

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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    They're not talking about college goers - pass or fail. They're talking about teens who drop out of high school and who don't usually go onto college.

    I think it's the other way aorund though: I think the dropping out is reflective of their choices and values in life already - not for everyone - but for many. If they drop out it's because their life was already unraveling. The article suggests that they drop out: and then their life falls apart because of that - which is wrong.

    Drop out rates are alos highly reflective of the age-disparity. . . Once you're age 18 (and usually this is the age for students to be seniors) the sense of 'individual adult' kicks in and many immediately jump ship and try to be independent because - legally - they can. Legally - their parents can't compell them and, being parents, make little effort to lay down their own parental law.

    So - Instead of stitching this together with college statistics. . .this should be stitched together with trying to figure out ways of circumventing the reasons why students drop out and trying to shorten the amount of time you're expected to spend in school is definitely worth looking into.
    Using an OECD comparison, that the U.S. is way behind in college completion rates is simply a matter of fact. Why is it that we do not see constant rates of completion across all OECD nations?

    My answer? The U.S.'s addiction to low skilled labor.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Also, while I do not discount that those who drop out are more likely going to cost taxpayers more than those who graduate from High School (which is what this article is about) one has to take the numbers with at least a skewed view as it's being presented by a group with something to gain.
    So nothing but your suspicious opinion?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    This just goes to show that Newt is right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNBC:



    News Headlines

    This new data further debunks emerging arguments that the U.S. should de-emphasize a college education. It is consistent with the already large body of evidence showing higher lifetime earnings and greater job stability for those who have college degrees.
    I don't think anyone is de-emphasizing a college education. However, what IMO should happen is stop trying to convince kids that a college degree = an instant 6 figure job. By the same token, a GED, HS diploma, or nothing at all isn't a first class ticket to poverty.

    It's all about possessing a work ethic, self motivation and finding one's nitch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    None of that has anything to do with the original article you posted.
    Correct, but it rebuts your claim, "The article DOES NOT come out against a college degree. It does the exact opposite." The article advocates alternatives to a four-year degree. It's a bad policy recommendation.

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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Correct, but it rebuts your claim, "The article DOES NOT come out against a college degree. It does the exact opposite." The article advocates alternatives to a four-year degree. It's a bad policy recommendation.
    I do not think you understand the arguement. It actually is a very strong arguement for the off topic arguements here concerning people not finishing their degree's. It's argueing that the system is outdated. He argues that continueing education is great but there is no reason a degree must be four years. I fully agree.

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    Re: Cost of High School Dropouts Draining US Taxpayer

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNBC:



    News Headlines

    This new data further debunks emerging arguments that the U.S. should de-emphasize a college education. It is consistent with the already large body of evidence showing higher lifetime earnings and greater job stability for those who have college degrees.
    Although I understand your point, I disagree for this reason; we need to improve the quality of our high school education. College is not a place to learn what you should have learned in high school, and that's what it is becoming through the community college system. Our pathetic public education system is such a failure, that community colleges and even universities are having to teach remedial courses, and teach courses that ought to have been taught in high school.

    But if the problem is high dropout rates in high school, the college isn't even an option because they are still in high school. Middle and high school are where we need to focus our energy. That's where the problem lies.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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