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Thread: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I see a vague indictment of vague statements.

    I vaguely disregard the whole affair. Let me know when we get to specifics.
    None of these guys would know class warfare if it came up and bit them in the ass.

    Don't hold your breath.

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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You could show how Obama's actually inspiring America to choose a new course!
    I don't much care for rhetoric.

    And explain to all of us
    You mean to your illiterate ass?

    what that course is and why my analogy is wrong
    You made an analogy? Do you know what an analogy actually is? Oh, you mean that little piece of hyperbolic ranting at the end of your post?

    through witty debate and solid reasoning.
    You provide none. You're too basic to even begin to use solid reasoning. The half dozen threads where I've ripped on your inability to read are enough proof of this.

    However, if you listen to Obama, know history and realize what TDR was all about, well... I guess I can see why all you can do is attack me for hyperbole.
    American President: Theodore Roosevelt: Domestic Affairs

    As chief executive, Roosevelt felt empowered by the people to help ensure social justice and economic opportunity through government regulation. He was not a radical, however; TR believed that big business was a natural part of a maturing economy and, therefore, saw no reason to abolish it. He never suggested fundamentally altering American society or the economy to address various economic and social ills. In fact, he often stated that there must be reform in order to stave off socialism; if government did not act, the people would turn to more extreme measures to seek remedies.

    In addition, TR was a politician who understood the need to compromise in order to implement his ideas. Coming into office following William McKinley's assassination, Roosevelt pledged to maintain the fallen President's policies so as not to upset the nation in a time of mourning. And even when he began to chart his own course, Roosevelt knew that he had to work with congressional Republicans to get the G.O.P. nomination for President in 1904.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Roosevelt
    Practical equality of opportunity for all citizens, when we achieve it, will have two great results. First, every man will have a fair chance to make of himself all that in him lies; to reach the highest point to which his capacities, unassisted by special privilege of his own and unhampered by the special privilege of others, can carry him, and to get for himself and his family substantially what he has earned. Second, equality of opportunity means that the commonwealth will get from every citizen the highest service of which he is capable. No man who carries the burden of the special privileges of another can give to the commonwealth that service to which it is fairly entitled.
    — I stand for the square deal. But when I say that I am for the square deal, I mean not merely that I stand for fair play under the present rules of the game, but that I stand for having those rules changed so as to work for a more substantial equality of opportunity and of reward for equally good service... When I say I want a square deal for the poor man, I do not mean that I want a square deal for the man who remains poor because he has not got the energy to work for himself. If a man who has had a chance will not make good, then he has got to quit... Now, this means that our government, National and State, must be freed from the sinister influence or control of special interests. Exactly as the special interests of cotton and slavery threatened our political integrity before the Civil War, so now the great special business interests too often control and corrupt the men and methods of government for their own profit. We must drive the special interests out of politics... For every special interest is entitled to justice, but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench, or to representation in any public office. The Constitution guarantees protection to property, and we must make that promise good. But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation. The true friend of property, the true conservative, is he who insists that property shall be the servant and not the master of the commonwealth; who insists that the creature of man's making shall be the servant and not the master of the man who made it. The citizens of the United States must effectively control the mighty commercial forces which they have themselves called into being.
    Theodore Roosevelt

    During a nearly eight-year presidency, Theodore Roosevelt transformed the United States into a world power and the federal government into a vigorous regulator of the industrializing domestic economy. Roosevelt was a frail boy who became a strong man; a soldier who won the Nobel Prize for Peace; a big-game hunter who founded the National Wildlife Refuge System; a historian whose freewheeling revision of the Monroe Doctrine was ultimately dismantled by his fifth cousin Franklin. Above all, he was the son of an elite New York Knickerbocker family who promised “a square deal” for ordinary Americans, taking on powerful lobbies to strengthen the Interstate Commerce Commission, establish the Department of Labor and Commerce, pass the Pure Food and Drug and Meat Inspection acts, and file dozens of federal suits against monopolies. Raised by his father to believe in his civic responsibility, certain of his ability to determine what was right, he possessed in abundance the intellectual and physical energies, political acuity, social standing, and charisma to realize many of his convictions.
    United States antitrust law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Public officials during the Progressive Era put passing and enforcing strong antitrust high on their agenda. President Theodore Roosevelt sued 45 companies under the Sherman Act, while William Howard Taft sued 75. In 1902, Roosevelt stopped the formation of the Northern Securities Company, which threatened to monopolize transportation in the Northwest (see Northern Securities Co. v. United States).
    Square Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Square Deal was President Theodore Roosevelt's domestic program formed upon three basic ideas: conservation of natural resources, control of corporations, and consumer protection.[1] Thus, it aimed at helping middle class citizens and involved attacking plutocracy and bad trusts while at the same time protecting business from the most extreme demands of organized labor.
    [edit]
    Meh, strong on regulation, created the square deal. The reason I attack you is because you're a hyperbole addict. This nonsense about a yoke. What next? Obama is going to use that yoke to march into gas chambers? Piss off already Pauligan.

    ta ta hun, thanks for making this one easy on me.
    Silence.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    If Obama cared one whit about "social justice" he wouldn't allow the Fed continue to concentrate only on the needs of Wall Street.

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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I don't much care for rhetoric.
    Yet you are a liberal and support Obama. Funny way of not liking Rhetoric. How's the "Hope and Change" working for ya? ROFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You mean to your illiterate ass?
    Personal attacks now is it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You made an analogy? Do you know what an analogy actually is? Oh, you mean that little piece of hyperbolic ranting at the end of your post?
    I made an analogy, through rhetorical hyperbole to make a point. I'll give you this lesson for free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You provide none. You're too basic to even begin to use solid reasoning. The half dozen threads where I've ripped on your inability to read are enough proof of this.
    No, you attacked me and provided nothing of substance, it appears though, you now shall attempt to do this. I like it when you try Hatuey, it's all the more fun to stomp on you for it.

    A Big Government progressive that believed in "Social Justice". Wealth and Property Redistribution... I fail to see how the above helped you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Meh, strong on regulation, created the square deal. The reason I attack you is because you're a hyperbole addict. This nonsense about a yoke. What next? Obama is going to use that yoke to march into gas chambers? Piss off already Pauligan.
    The YOKE represents Government CONTROL. You give up some liberty and freedoms, and the Government will take care of you. Healthcare? "You don't need to worry about that, Government's got your back, we'll just take more of your income and decide the sort of coverage you MUST have. You don't' get a say in the type, cost or coverage, we'll do that for you. "

    That is an example of using the YOKE to represent CONTROL. You don't get this, and you call me illiterate. Irony.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Silence.
    You posted this less then two hours ago, do you think Is it around awaiting you post?

    However, I will make a note to check this thread again, just to see if you dare respond. Failure to do so will be seen as admitting you were beaten. Again.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    None of these guys would know class warfare if it came up and bit them in the ass.

    Don't hold your breath.
    You've never heard a class warfare speech you didn't like, so...
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post

    However, I will make a note to check this thread again, just to see if you dare respond. Failure to do so will be seen as admitting you were beaten. Again.
    It's been four whole minutes, I'd say ring the bell, and hold up the right arm and declare.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It's been four whole minutes, I'd say ring the bell, and hold up the right arm and declare.


    j-mac
    haha

    I should have put "Silence" at the end.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  8. #18
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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yet you are a liberal and support Obama. Funny way of not liking Rhetoric. How's the "Hope and Change" working for ya? ROFL.
    Are you this ignorant? I created a thread on why I wouldn't vote for Obama. Not much of an Obama supporter now am I?

    Personal attacks now is it?
    Oh quit your crying.

    I made an analogy, through rhetorical hyperbole to make a point. I'll give you this lesson for free.
    Rhetorical hyperbole? Lawl, so you made a deliberately exaggerated statement in order to highlight the supposedly factual control that Obama wants to exert of 'our' lives? I know you're bad in Spanish, but even in English you seem to be having problems understanding basic literary devices.

    No, you attacked me and provided nothing of substance,
    Your OP didn't have any substance to begin with. I replied in kind.

    it appears though, you now shall attempt to do this. I like it when you try Hatuey, it's all the more fun to stomp on you for it.
    Delusions of grandeur?

    A Big Government progressive that believed in "Social Justice".
    Yes, a terrible thing at a time where poverty rates make modern recessions seem like cakewalks.

    Wealth and Property Redistribution... I fail to see how the above helped you...
    Do you honestly think that you and your illiterate attempts at creating factual hyperbolic statements can make social justice seem like a bad thing? Better yet, do you think you and your ignorance could make Teddy look bad?

    The YOKE represents Government CONTROL. You give up some liberty and freedoms, and the Government will take care of you. Healthcare? "You don't need to worry about that, Government's got your back, we'll just take more of your income and decide the sort of coverage you MUST have. You don't' get a say in the type, cost or coverage, we'll do that for you. "
    Who says you wouldn't need to worry about healthcare? Seriously, have you ever set foot outside the US for any amount of time other than on a family trip or through the military? People in Canada worry about their health care even though they have UHC. What is better is that you think a government employing UCH gets to dictate what kind of coverage you'll get. It goes to show how ignorant you actually are about healthcare.

    That is an example of using the YOKE to represent CONTROL. You don't get this, and you call me illiterate. Irony.
    Did you admit that your statement was exaggerated and you still pursue it?

    You posted this less then two hours ago, do you think Is it around awaiting you post?

    However, I will make a note to check this thread again, just to see if you dare respond. Failure to do so will be seen as admitting you were beaten. Again.
    This is why you're illiterate. Silence = be quiet. Stfu just didn't seem civil enough.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-07-11 at 02:09 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #19
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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Are you this ignorant? I created a thread on why I wouldn't vote for Obama. Not much of an Obama supporter now am I?
    Oh please, you're going to vote for him, spare us the false agony of choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Oh quit your crying.
    Quit the personal attacks then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Rhetorical hyperbole? Lawl, so you made a deliberately exaggerated statement in order to highlight the supposedly factual control that Obama wants to exert of 'our' lives? I know you're bad in Spanish, but even in English you seem to be having problems understanding basic literary devices.
    Obamacare, control over our lives. Point, set match.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Your OP didn't have any substance to begin with. I replied in kind.
    I know, it was about an Obama speech, no substance, you got me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Delusions of grandeur?
    Truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes, a terrible thing at a time where poverty rates make modern recessions seem like cakewalks.
    The New Deal, Great Society and TRILLIONS in wealth transfer from the productive segments of society to the unproductive. Amazingly, there are still unproductive poor people in America! Your answer is further enslavement and poverty. Shocking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Do you honestly think that you and your illiterate attempts at creating factual hyperbolic statements can make social justice seem like a bad thing? Better yet, do you think you and your ignorance could make Teddy look bad?
    Social Justice is a terrible thing. It uses a false premise that society has a moral obligation to take from those that have, and give it to those that do not. Social Justice is at it's heart, immoral. And yes, I know religious institutions promote it too, I find it reprehensible. TDR was a bad president, a bad man, and helped usher in Progressivism in America. For that his name should be spoken with scorn and ridicule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Who says you wouldn't need to worry about healthcare? Seriously, have you ever set foot outside the US for any amount of time other than on a family trip or through the military? People in Canada worry about their health care even though they have UHC. What is better is that you think a government employing UCH gets to dictate what kind of coverage you'll get. It goes to show how ignorant you actually are about healthcare.
    No, it shows how much koolaide you drink. People in Canada worry because they have to wait months for procedures, for now, you can get done in a matter of DAYS in the USA. HAVE you READ Obamacare? It dictates the minimum level of coverage YOU MUST have, and if you refuse to carry insurance, you are penalized. Care to explain how that's not control? I shall eagerly await this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Did you admit that your statement was exaggerated and you still pursue it?
    I explained it to you, since you missed it the first time, and you are still incapable of understanding. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can'[t make him drink..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is why you're illiterate. Silence = be quiet. Stfu just didn't seem civil enough.
    Ahhh. I see, you used Silence as an ORDER. How silly of me, I have a response to that:

    No.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  10. #20
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    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Obamacare, control over our lives. Point, set match.
    + =

    No no it doesnt. It doesnt even come close to "controlling our lives".

    Also on the Canada note how many people actually die from these horrendous, just have to be awful "waiting times"? Studies have found 45,000 people in the US die from just having lack of health care... Now how many die in Canada from these "waiting times"?

    Also if UHC is sooo terrible why are people all over Europe fighting for it to stay around whenever a conservative politician comes around and tries to get rid of it or make huge drastic cuts?


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