Page 13 of 16 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 151

Thread: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

  1. #121
    Sage

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Texas, Vegas, Colombia
    Last Seen
    11-28-16 @ 06:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,295

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No I am no joking. What have I said that I cannot back up with either the law itself or facts about the results of the law.
    .. sure, you can back up your arguments.. except for the arguments about naked raping, dictatorship, stripping voters rights and being racist.

    YOu are being dishonest in the extreme. The people who were elected by the people ARE NO LONGER THE ACTUAL GOVERNMENT. The actual government, the one who holds ALL THE POWERS OF GOVERNMENT, both legislative and executive as well as many new powers normally NOT held by government, is the emergency manager. That is the local government. And the people most certainly DO NOT get to vote for them.
    no, i'm not being dishonest to any degree....
    can you cite where this law suspends or delays elections?.. if not.. then the people can still vote for their local government... their voting rights are still wholly intact.
    what you are talking about is the emergency managers, appointed by the state government, legally usurping the powers of the city government... which is very very different from stripping voters rights away.
    as far as I can see, the powers that are usurped all revolve around financial decision making.. and yes, that does get pretty broad, but it does not include all powers of local government.

    I much prefer to see a local government act in accordance with it's fiduciary responsibilities... that would be the best case scenario for me.... but when faced wit ha situation where they do not, what are we supposed to do?.. just say **** it and let the city collapse under it's own weight?
    I don't necessarily mind the duly elected state government stepping up and setting things right when the local government either won't or can't.... for gods sake, somebody has to.



    I taught high school government for over three decades. I am sensitive to the cement that holds our delicate system of representative government together... and that is the vote of the citizens for the government making decisions for them. That is the glue that holds it all together and gives it legitimacy. Once you remove that, you have no better than a dictatorship imposed upon the people against their will.
    dear lord.... you taught high school kids government for 30 years?.. and now you work in public policy making?... well, ummm.. no comment.

    The timeless wisdom of Niemoller seems to fit you and others perfectly

    [I]First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.
    seen it and heard it before...what's your point in posting it?.. is someone coming for you?...do you need help?
    in any event.. Samuel Colt is always there to speak for me

  2. #122
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,935

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    from Thrilla

    sure, you can back up your arguments.. except for the arguments about naked raping, dictatorship, stripping voters rights and being racist.
    all that has been shown - more times than even necessary in debate. Taking away the right to vote for your government - is indeed akin to rape in a representative democracy where the vote is central to the legitimacy entire system. The element of CONSENT has been removed and DICTATORSHIP put in its place. As to the racial part, there is no dispute from you when I give you the facts. A group of almost all white republicans from the suburbs and rural areas has passed a law which is being used in communities made up mostly of people of color and removes their right to elect their own government. That is clear and true beyond dispute.

    At times you sound like a person of fairly average mental abilities - then you go off and say something like this

    can you cite where this law suspends or delays elections?.. if not.. then the people can still vote for their local government... their voting rights are still wholly intact.
    what you are talking about is the emergency managers, appointed by the state government, legally usurping the powers of the city government... which is very very different from stripping voters rights away.
    Are you really that dense or are you pretending to play ostrich and hide your head in the sand. Under an emergency manager it does not matter if you allow the people to have daily elections for hundreds of city officials. It does not matter. The fact is - the reality is - the truth is that the actual government of the city is now the emergency manager. They hold all the executive powers of government. They hold all the legislative powers of government. And they hold extreme powers than most governments do not possess. THEY ARE THE FREAKIN GOVERNMENT and the people cannot vote for them.

    What part about that do you not get?

    Telling me that there still might be an election for positions which have no power, no authority, and which can do nothing is meaningless. And for you to take that position is intellectually dishonest in the extreme.

    I gave you the law and I gave you the powers of the manager and still you persist in posting blatant falsehoods and lies

    as far as I can see, the powers that are usurped all revolve around financial decision making.. and yes, that does get pretty broad, but it does not include all powers of local government.
    from the law on the section of the powers of the emergency manager

    (ee) Take any other action or exercise any power or authority of any officer, employee, department, board, commission, or other similar entity of the local government, whether elected or appointed, relating to the operation of the local government. The power of the emergency manager shall be superior to and supersede the power of any of the foregoing officers or entities.
    (ff) Remove, replace, appoint, or confirm the appointments to any office, board, commission, authority, or other entity which is within or is a component unit of the local government.
    (2) Except as otherwise provided in this act, during the pendency of the receivership, the authority of the chief administrative officer and governing body to exercise power for and on behalf of the local government under law, charter, and ordinance shall be suspended and vested in the emergency manager.


    I believe that last part about them having the authority to suspend those who normally operate under laws, charter and ordinances pretty much tells us what we need to know about the right to vote for your actual government. In Detroit, we have a Department of Elections which operates the elections. As you can see. the manager takes that over and has the power to exercise ANY POWER or authority over that department and function. How can you have elections if the manager will not schedule them? And we already know there is no point in having elections if the people the citizens elect have no power anyway and can be sent home a minute after they are elected and told not to come back.

    You cannot get any more sweeping or dictatorial than that. But you will most likely ingore that ugly reality in favor of your previous ostrich positions.

    And yet again, I keep quoting the law and you keep screaming 'hyperbole'.

    as to the wisdom of Niemoller

    seen it and heard it before...what's your point in posting it?.. is someone coming for you?...do you need help?
    Let me guess? This is you being a smart aleck... or a smart whatever it is you are pretending to be. And when I rip you for it you will get your panties in a twist and say something about me not treating you with respect or some other such nonsense.

    The fact is that nearly a million people in my State do have someone coming for their voting rights and folks like you are standing on the sidelines in your safe and secure zones of privilege and saying 'tsk tsk' pretending that it is only happening to "those people". The poem fits you like a glove. It is folks just like you that it was written for.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-11-11 at 08:12 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #123
    Sage

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Texas, Vegas, Colombia
    Last Seen
    11-28-16 @ 06:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,295

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    I think we have both made ourselves clear on the matter..and while we probably have a little bit of common ground, we won't find it.... you don't like me and i don't like you.. so that's going to stand in the way of this being a productive discussion.

    I wish you luck in killing off this naked rapin', vote strippin', racist, dictatorship of yours.

    here's to hopin' y'all get your **** straight in Michigan... you have until April before Detroit runs out of money.. good luck!

  4. #124
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,935

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I think we have both made ourselves clear on the matter..and while we probably have a little bit of common ground, we won't find it.... you don't like me and i don't like you.. so that's going to stand in the way of this being a productive discussion.

    I wish you luck in killing off this naked rapin', vote strippin', racist, dictatorship of yours.

    here's to hopin' y'all get your **** straight in Michigan... you have until April before Detroit runs out of money.. good luck!


    Perhaps next time you could actually cite the relevant portions of the law that you pretend to know something about?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #125
    Sage

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Texas, Vegas, Colombia
    Last Seen
    11-28-16 @ 06:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,295

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Perhaps next time you could actually cite the relevant portions of the law that you pretend to know something about?
    perhaps.. perhaps not.... i'll make the determination of whether it's worth the effort or not, if that's ok with you.

  6. #126
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    They're coming to GET you! Trust me!

    If by 'they' you mean liberal progressives that seek to lower all boats in the name of 'fairness' then you may be on to something. However, if you are just blowing snark, hoping to troll, then I'll keep reading for something substantive. thanks.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #127
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,935

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    perhaps.. perhaps not.... i'll make the determination of whether it's worth the effort or not, if that's ok with you.
    Absolutely.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #128
    Educator U.S. Socialist.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    04-18-12 @ 04:55 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    913

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    I really wish conservatives would quit throwing around terms like class warfare, it just makes them look completely ignorant. Obama is a capitalist, he is not a socialist, he not Lenin, and he is not waging some war on behalf of the proletariat. He isn't even as left as FDR, hell he isn't even to the left of Bill Clinton.

  9. #129
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    I really wish conservatives would quit throwing around terms like class warfare, it just makes them look completely ignorant. Obama is a capitalist, he is not a socialist, he not Lenin, and he is not waging some war on behalf of the proletariat. He isn't even as left as FDR, hell he isn't even to the left of Bill Clinton.
    Get serious: he isn't even to the left of Richard Nixon.

  10. #130
    Educator U.S. Socialist.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    04-18-12 @ 04:55 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    913

    Re: Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Get serious: he isn't even to the left of Richard Nixon.
    Good point. Hell, Eisenhower was more of a leftist than Obama,seeing as how he taxed the rich at over 90%.

Page 13 of 16 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •