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Thread: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Your point was about the safety of nuclear, and my point is that even though the odds are slim, the results when the slim chance occurs is far more detrimental than the smaller scale problems and accidents that do occur more frequently with other energy generation methods.

    You do know, that according to recent analysis there was around 800000 people that have developed cancers and died as a result of Chernobyl... So, it's rare, but one major nuclear disaster every 30 years is FAR TOO MUCH RISK.
    They are rare, and with every one, we see more safety issues raised and corrected.

    Chernobyl is the only nuclear accident that resulted in a major loss of life. It was also caused by issues that have been addressed by every major country using nuclear power as an energy source. Safety concerns that came up and were addressed due to Chernobyl probably even went into the much smaller loss of life and the better (if not well done) response to Fukushima.

    Even TMI led to major changes in the nuclear power rules/regulations in the US (at the very least) which help us run our plants much more safely.

    We have been using nuclear power for over 55 years now, and in that time, there have only been 2 major disasters. For the US, we have lost very few lives due to nuclear power accidents (I think the number is 3 known for actual US nuclear power accidents being the primary cause, but there could be some obscure ones I'm not aware of).
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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Your point was about the safety of nuclear, and my point is that even though the odds are slim, the results when the slim chance occurs is far more detrimental than the smaller scale problems and accidents that do occur more frequently with other energy generation methods.

    You do know, that according to recent analysis there was around 800000 people that have developed cancers and died as a result of Chernobyl... So, it's rare, but one major nuclear disaster every 30 years is FAR TOO MUCH RISK.
    In 2005, there were 6.4 Million car accidents. Of those accidents, 2.9 million were injured, and about 43 thousand were killed. In 20 years of driving (assuming that 2005 was a average year) in America, more people are killed than Chernobyl. Not to mention we incur about 430 Billion in damages. Under your philosophy, even though car accidents are quite common, the risks and expense are far too much to risk.

    Accidents will happen. We need to learn from them, engineer better and move on. We should never regress.
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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    In 20 years of driving (assuming that 2005 was a average year) in America, more people are killed than Chernobyl.

    Accidents will happen. We need to learn from them, engineer better and move on. We should never regress.
    The difference is that the area surrounding Chernobyl is uninhabitable for hundreds or thousands of years. If anyone had been living in Pripyat for the last 25 years, the death toll would be unimaginable.

    A vast majority of the time, nuclear is much safer than coal plants. I'm not saying "no nukes." It is a power source that should be used judiciously. But part of that judicious use is weighing what could happen in an accident. The fact that there aren't that many accidents doesn't mean you should put a reactor in Manhattan.


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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Maybe because a) the US has never had a nuclear incident with any of its nuclear powered ships/subs and b) even if any country had a major issue with those nuclear powered crafts, it is not likely to cause problems for the general public, since most of those reactors are quite small compared to commercial plants and likely to be easily moved to the middle of the ocean without severely affecting many people.
    There are at least seven nuclear reactors from subs etc. littering the ocean at this point in time. At least two of those are from US subs, The Thresher and Shark are the names in my memory, (might be slightly off). And you seem to think that is OK. It's not. "Dilution is not the solution to pollution." I know you are spouting your company line. Go with developed thoughts, not beliefs.

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Maybe because a) the US has never had a nuclear incident with any of its nuclear powered ships/subs and b) even if any country had a major issue with those nuclear powered crafts, it is not likely to cause problems for the general public, since most of those reactors are quite small compared to commercial plants and likely to be easily moved to the middle of the ocean without severely affecting many people.

    The Thresher nuclear submarine:


    "Ballard's robotic survey discovered that Thresher had sunk so deep it imploded, turning into thousands of pieces. The only recoverable piece was a foot of marled pipe.[7] His 1985 search for Scorpion, which was thought to be a victim of a Soviet attack, revealed such a large debris field that it looked "as though it had been put through a shredding machine." Once the two wrecks had been visited, and the radioactive threat from both was established as small, "


    USS Thresher (SSN-593) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    USS Scorpion

    "Today, the wreck of Scorpion is reported to be resting on a sandy seabed at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean in approximately 3,000 m (9,800 ft) of water. The site is reported to be approximately 400 nmi (740 km) southwest of the Azores Islands, on the eastern edge of the Sargasso Sea. The U.S. Navy has acknowledged that it periodically visits the site to conduct testing for the release of nuclear materials from the nuclear reactor or the two nuclear weapons aboard her, and to determine whether the wreckage has been disturbed. The Navy has not released any information about the status of the wreckage, except for a few photographs taken of the wreckage in 1968, and again in 1985 by deep water submersibles."




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Scorpion_(SSN-589)



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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    There are at least seven nuclear reactors from subs etc. littering the ocean at this point in time. At least two of those are from US subs, The Thresher and Shark are the names in my memory, (might be slightly off). And you seem to think that is OK. It's not. "Dilution is not the solution to pollution." I know you are spouting your company line. Go with developed thoughts, not beliefs.
    It's the Thresher and the Scorpion. Those were not lost to a nuclear accident. I know their history. I learned it during Navy Nuclear Power School. They are not polluting the ocean any more than a conventional sub would be because they are shut down and even have safety measures in place to cover them not being able to start up down there.

    There is no "company line". I have not worked in nuclear power for anyone but the US Navy. I know exactly how safe we operate. I also know our backups and fail-safes. But, along with these things, I know the guidelines that commercial plants in the US are required to follow, who checks up on them, and what happens if they do not follow procedures. I also know that even commercial plants must have backups and show that they have plans set up if something goes wrong.
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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    There are at least seven nuclear reactors from subs etc. littering the ocean at this point in time. At least two of those are from US subs, The Thresher and Shark are the names in my memory, (might be slightly off). And you seem to think that is OK. It's not. "Dilution is not the solution to pollution." I know you are spouting your company line. Go with developed thoughts, not beliefs.
    Neither the Thresher nor the Scorpion was lost due to a nuclear accident. Their reactors are not giving off a significant amount of radiation. There is probably more radiation given off by the nuclear weapons aboard either than by their reactors. There is certainly no issues from those reactors regarding the public.

    I don't have to spout "corporate lines". I have never worked for corporate nuclear power. I only worked on nuclear power for the US Navy. I know what our safety measures are and our backups. I also know that, although we have more stringent rules than the corporate nuclear power world, they are still held to national rules and safety standards that we are. Heck, at least one of the blackouts affecting a major area of the country within the past decade had to do with a safety concern involving the loss of a reliable backup to a plant, which caused the plant to have to be shutdown til a backup could be brought back online. This shows that there are procedures in place that take precedent to the public having power even, when it comes to nuclear power safety.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The difference is that the area surrounding Chernobyl is uninhabitable for hundreds or thousands of years. If anyone had been living in Pripyat for the last 25 years, the death toll would be unimaginable.

    A vast majority of the time, nuclear is much safer than coal plants. I'm not saying "no nukes." It is a power source that should be used judiciously. But part of that judicious use is weighing what could happen in an accident. The fact that there aren't that many accidents doesn't mean you should put a reactor in Manhattan.
    I agree, no nuclear power plants in the heart of Manhattan...LA...maybe...just kidding. As far as Chernobyl goes, I find it hard to compare that incident with any nuclear incident that has or ever will happen in the civilized world. I don't believe the US or Japan would have handled that problem so horribly. Chernobyl could have been averted, but corner cutting and lack of education caused a huge disaster.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    In 2005, there were 6.4 Million car accidents. Of those accidents, 2.9 million were injured, and about 43 thousand were killed. In 20 years of driving (assuming that 2005 was a average year) in America, more people are killed than Chernobyl. Not to mention we incur about 430 Billion in damages. Under your philosophy, even though car accidents are quite common, the risks and expense are far too much to risk.

    Accidents will happen. We need to learn from them, engineer better and move on. We should never regress.
    No, the opposite. Because when there is a car wreck you can clean it up and there is no residual damages.

    Now, if everytime there was a car wreck you had to seal the accident in a block of lead infused concrete and buried for millions of years before returning to normal, THEN I might argue...

    Actually, that's a good idea... let's get nuclear powered cars on the road, there'd be less CO2 to worry about.

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    The average driver on the road can't operate his/her car safely enough as they are, you really don't want them operating a nuclear reactor. The Navy sends its people to a year long school specifically for that purpose, and that is after their "A" school.
    but I know you jest....


    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    No, the opposite. Because when there is a car wreck you can clean it up and there is no residual damages.

    Now, if everytime there was a car wreck you had to seal the accident in a block of lead infused concrete and buried for millions of years before returning to normal, THEN I might argue...

    Actually, that's a good idea... let's get nuclear powered cars on the road, there'd be less CO2 to worry about.
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