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Thread: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    again, no, please do some research. Scrubbers, bag houses, etc. at coal plants are not that efficient. Coal is not pure, it has radioactive elements in it that exit the coal stack and get into our air, along with sulphur, mercury, and a lot of other nasty stuff. Then there is all the ash that has to be hauled away and stored somewhere.
    The only nice thing about coal is that we have so much of it...
    Oh, sorry, it's around 90% efficient in reducing pollution.

    And then with the "clean-coal" there's even less pollution escaping...

    More over, this is a strawman, since the COMPARISON was between living next to a coal plant vs living next to a NUCLEAR REACTOR THAT"S MELTED DOWN. Not one in peak operation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Who cares about just radiation? There are many other things that can kill. Also, I'd like to see evidence pointing to the chances of an evacuation of Tokyo.

    MSHA Fact Sheets - Injury Trends in Mining

    Many Eyes : Deaths per TWh by energy sources
    "It was a crucial moment when I wasn't sure whether Japan could continue to function as a state," he said.
    Tokyo faced evacuation scenario: Kan | The Japan Times Online

    AND THAT"S AFTER ALL THE DOWNPLAYING of the seriousness of a nuclear meltdown.

    Oh, and also, the EPA raised the "safe" levels of radiation up to 100 000X previous safe levels, but ONLY for the duration of the worst of this disaster.

    And to your last two points, yes, there are more casualties per capita with other forms of energy... but nobody cares about when a nuke plant is running well, it's that WHEN things go wrong, and on a long-enough time line things WILL go wrong... with nuclear, THINGS GO HORRIBLY WRONG!!!!

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post

    Tokyo faced evacuation scenario: Kan | The Japan Times Online

    AND THAT"S AFTER ALL THE DOWNPLAYING of the seriousness of a nuclear meltdown.
    It's useful to have a plan. That doesn't mean that there is a good chance of it being implemented.

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Oh, and also, the EPA raised the "safe" levels of radiation up to 100 000X previous safe levels, but ONLY for the duration of the worst of this disaster.

    link?

    And to your last two points, yes, there are more casualties per capita with other forms of energy... but nobody cares about when a nuke plant is running well, it's that WHEN things go wrong, and on a long-enough time line things WILL go wrong... with nuclear, THINGS GO HORRIBLY WRONG!!!!
    You can't just do that. If you are concerned with the well-being of people, you need to look at the health costs of the plants in general. Some plants have accidents. The vast majority don't. Fukushima is only the second nuclear disaster in history to seriously impact the health of the community. What would you rather have, the possibility of a lot of deaths and illness?
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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Nope, NO, nyet, etc.
    How does nuclear reduce our need for oil? Nuclear is pretty much good for only one thing, making electricity. Very little electricity is generated by burning oil, less than 3%. It was much higher in the days of the Carter administration. He helped get rid of them...
    We have multiple methods of generating electricity, that part of our energy needs can be easily met.

    OIL for transportation fuel is our main energy issue, and nukes will have very little impact on our need for oil, gasoline, diesel, natural gas, etc.
    The primary impact that nukes make is the making of base load electricity with practically zero emissions due to operations. Coal is also a base load fuel but it is dirty. Natural gas is the next cleanest, and is ideal for peaking plants or even base load in smaller population densities.
    Solar and wind are not alternatives to either peaking or base load, they are supplements.
    Big money is required because big power plants are expensive. Free enterprise means we allow profit, it is the American way.
    Apparently we are in a paradigm. My pespective is of local energy viewed with a clear eye to the planets future. You see the same view from a rectal observation point. Everything you talk is about Big Energy and distribution at utility scale. Energy, jobs, efficiency, energy conservation, are done by solar, wind, etc. at a local level. Try the right cheek, left cheek exercise.
    Last edited by DaveFagan; 12-04-11 at 08:25 PM.

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Apparently we are in a paradigm. My pespective is of local energy viewed with a clear eye to the planets future. You see the same view from a rectal observation point. Everything you talk is about Big Energy and distribution at utility scale. Energy, jobs, efficiency, energy conservation, are done by solar, wind, etc. at a local level. Try the right cheek, left cheek exercise.
    when both your butt cheeks are sitting on a cold chair in a cold house with no lights, no fan to blow the hot air out of your furnace, etc. THEN you will want power even if it is big nukes.
    About 20% (you can look it up) of our electricity is from nuclear power. Who are we going to cut off? Where will we get power that operates 24/7? Wind and solar are not dependable, and the storage of power from those sources are likely to be more expensive than a nuke plant....
    I spent most of my working life in and around nuclear power, been an operator, Instrument tech, metrology tech.
    I don't disagree with local power, especially since so much of it from big plants is lost in transmission over long distances. I would rather see lots of smaller reactors on local grids than see half the country go dark because some podunk utility in some hillbilly state decided to skip some essential maintenance...
    Look at this way, the FRENCH are the world's leaders in nuclear electricity. Are they smarter than us? Damn right they are. They don't store their spent fuel, they reprocess it and burn it again....
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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    I heard there was a car accident in Atlanta today.....let's ban all cars. Ship happens.

    Note to self: don't live in the fall out zone of a nuke plant.
    I love the smell of burning moonbat in the morning.

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    I heard there was a car accident in Atlanta today.....let's ban all cars. Ship happens.

    Note to self: don't live in the fall out zone of a nuke plant.
    and don't ban ****, either. when that stuff backs up on you, it ain't pleasant....
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    It's useful to have a plan. That doesn't mean that there is a good chance of it being implemented.



    You can't just do that. If you are concerned with the well-being of people, you need to look at the health costs of the plants in general. Some plants have accidents. The vast majority don't. Fukushima is only the second nuclear disaster in history to seriously impact the health of the community. What would you rather have, the possibility of a lot of deaths and illness?
    Ya, and the affected areas are going to be impacted Effectively FOREVER.

    Now, does your casualty list count the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people that have developed cancers in the areas affected by Chernobyl in the 25+years since that happened??

    So, tragic as it is, if someone dies in a coal mine it does not devastate the entire region surrounding for thousands to billions of years...

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    People are raely exposed to Mox fuels in dangerous quantities. I'd rather live next to a coal plant or work in a coal mine than stand next to a melting reactor. This ignores the fact that the dangers of nuclear energy come about very rarely, while coal plants are always dirtying our air.
    That's the quandary. 98% of the time, nuclear is relatively safe. But that other 2% of the time is a real bitch. (Percentages are estimates, but you get the point.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ya, and the affected areas are going to be impacted Effectively FOREVER.

    Now, does your casualty list count the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people that have developed cancers in the areas affected by Chernobyl in the 25+years since that happened??

    So, tragic as it is, if someone dies in a coal mine it does not devastate the entire region surrounding for thousands to billions of years...
    The russians built cheap, and they paid for it. The Japanese disregarded the very real potential of a tsunami, and they are paying for it.
    The odds of either of those 2 scenarios in the USA are slim to none. Where it might be possible, you can bet that some changes are being made to mitigate the potential occurrence.
    TMI was our meltdown, and nobody died or had to move away....and if the operators had left the controls alone and let the protection circuits do what they were doing, there would not have been a meltdown. The operators didn't believe their instruments and turned off the safety system designed to provide emergency cooling. You guys can rant all you want, it won't change anything. Long story short, we would be far better off teaching the next generations how to use less energy....the current generation is too addicted to want to change their habits.


    http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-co...rnobyl-bg.html

    The NRC has some info on how many cancers actually occurred....
    Last edited by UtahBill; 12-04-11 at 11:24 PM.
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    Re: Fukushima fuel rods may have completely melted

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88
    That's the quandary. 98% of the time, nuclear is relatively safe. But that other 2% of the time is a real bitch. (Percentages are estimates, but you get the point.)
    There have been two catastrophic nuclear disasters regarding the nuclear power industry thoughout all of history. There have been countless catastrophes involving other power generation industries. The reason that nuclear gets a bad rap is the same reason that people think airplanes are unsafe - it's so safe that the disasters are focused on disproportionately.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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