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Thread: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

  1. #21
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It doesn't matter.
    You're too focused on this.

    China sells a lot of to us, at a loss to themselves.
    It's a benefit to us.
    Do we export to china the same amount and value that we import from China?Yes No?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #22
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Do we export to china the same amount and value that we import from China?Yes No?
    It does not matter.
    As DA pointed out, it's called comparative advantage.

    Do we export lots of stuff to other nations, yes we do.
    It doesn't have to be completely = in the amount of goods traded between in the U.S. and China.

    As easy example to prove that trade deficits don't matter.
    Your personal household will forever be in a "trade deficit."
    Yet you are not poorer because of it.

    Another easy example.
    Is the U.S. better off, because all of the states can trade freely or are they worse off?
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 12-05-11 at 06:35 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #23
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    republicans believe there is more to patriotism than just waving a flag and saying I support the troops.

    Only "buying American" doesn't help the US economy or job growth nearly a much as comparative advantage.
    How so? Buying more American made goods increases demanded for more American made goods.That puts more money in the pockets of real American companies and that increased demand for more American made goods will entice real American companies to hire more employees to make goods in order to meet the demand.


    What would you consider "fair"? How is cheaper labor any different than a thousand different ways that businesses use to compete.
    A pretty huge ****en difference between 33 and half cents and hour for 80 hours a week for a Chinese worker verses an American making minimum wage or more for only 40 hours a week. What American company can compete with that?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #24
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    How so? Buying more American made goods increases demanded for more American made goods.That puts more money in the pockets of real American companies and that increased demand for more American made goods will entice real American companies to hire more employees to make goods in order to meet the demand.
    It's an inefficient allocation of resources, which can reduce our standard of living.
    No thanks, not interested.



    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    A pretty huge ****en difference between 33 and half cents and hour for 80 hours a week for a Chinese worker verses an American making minimum wage or more for only 40 hours a week. What American company can compete with that?
    That same Chinese person has a lower standard of living and has not enjoyed all the governmental and other social benefits that the average American has.
    They can compete in other areas, because price isn't the only important thing.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #25
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It does not matter.

    If it doesn't matter then you should have no problem stating whether or not we import more from China than what we export in goods and value to China or Vice Versa .
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #26
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's an inefficient allocation of resources, which can reduce our standard of living.
    No thanks, not interested.
    It is not an inefficient allocation of resources.



    That same Chinese person has a lower standard of living and has not enjoyed all the governmental and other social benefits that the average American has.
    They can compete in other areas, because price isn't the only important thing.
    If price wasn't the only important thing then they wouldn't oppose higher tariffs.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #27
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If it doesn't matter then you should have no problem stating whether or not we import more from China than what we export in goods and value to China or Vice Versa .
    It is immaterial.
    It does not account for other forms of trade, not based on physical goods.
    If anything, it is an incomplete picture of what is actually happening.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It is not an inefficient allocation of resources.
    If China can make steel more cost efficiently than we could, but we restrict or artificially raise the cost of their steel, then domestic firms would have to spend more for the same product or have to buy steel from a more expensive domestic firm.
    Thus rolling the unnecessary increased cost into the item, requiring consumers to pay more for the same product, all the satisfy the whims of some economic illiterates.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If price wasn't the only important thing then they wouldn't oppose higher tariffs.
    Incorrect.
    Artificially raising prices and bailing out domestic businesses is still wrong.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #29
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    How so? Buying more American made goods increases demanded for more American made goods.That puts more money in the pockets of real American companies and that increased demand for more American made goods will entice real American companies to hire more employees to make goods in order to meet the demand.
    It's not that simple. If you make Americans buy just things made in America, then we have to produce all of our own stuff. This means that capital and labor that could have been used for more productive purposes now has to go toward manufacturing buttons or oven mitts instead of things that could provide Americans with far greater returns. Free trade allows each country to specialize its economy to focus on what it is best at. Think about it, you probably wouldn't want to be forced to live in the woods and make everything yourself. You might be quite good at building furniture and hunting, but it is far easier to rely on other people to provide you with goods and services in exchange for the money you make doing your job. The same principle applies to countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    A pretty huge ****en difference between 33 and half cents and hour for 80 hours a week for a Chinese worker verses an American making minimum wage or more for only 40 hours a week. What American company can compete with that?
    There is still an improvement. Why do you think China's middle class is growing. It takes time for everyone to experience the benefits of economic growth when a country is lifting itself out of poverty. Even then, cost is only one of many factors associated with choosing labor or investments. The real draw is return on investment. Right now, Americans are some of the most productive workers in the world. Unemployment remained pretty steady since the wave of globalization swept the world.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  10. #30
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    Re: Seattle Reverses Ban on “Buy American”

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    It's not that simple. If you make Americans buy just things made in America, then we have to produce all of our own stuff.
    You make that sound like it is a bad thing.We should make our own goods.


    This means that capital and labor that could have been used for more productive purposes now has to go toward manufacturing buttons or oven mitts instead of things that could provide Americans with far greater returns.
    Seeing how people all across the US had to take lower paying jobs and we have a high unemployment rate, those lower wage jobs will not be missed.
    Free trade allows each country to specialize its economy to focus on what it is best at. Think about it, you probably wouldn't want to be forced to live in the woods and make everything yourself.
    Not even comparable.


    There is still an improvement. Why do you think China's middle class is growing.
    Because ours is shrinking.
    It takes time for everyone to experience the benefits of economic growth when a country is lifting itself out of poverty.
    We should not lift other countries out of poverty at the expense of Americans.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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