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Thread: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Seriously, are you dense? I'm talking about brands other than the big three.
    Then why not name them? Where's your problem? For the fourth time, which foreign brands concern you?
    Sure, but a lot of the jobs lost in the U.S. would be jobs gained in Japan, S. Korea, and Germany. Not sure how I can make that any clearer....
    Many of those companies have manufacturing plants in the United States. The "Big Three" is a dinosaur. Which brands so you have a particular problem with?

    He fired Wagoner because the turnaround expert he brought in to study the company determined that Wagoner was detrimental to the turnaround. That expert was Steve Rattner, formerly of the Quadrangle Group -- a private equity firm Rattner helped grow from $1 billion in capital to $6 billion in capital over a period of eight years. When Rattner left they brought in Ed Whitacre, the former CEO of AT&T. As far as giving Wagoner a chance, he was CEO of GM for eight years, during which time the company lost $85 billion. I think that's enough time to draw conclusions.
    And all this time GM was without a board of directors? This is going to be an attractive precedent for future presidents.. If a company is not making money the Commander in Chief can just take t over and fire the boss. I can see circumstances where companies can merge, milk it dry, threaten to fail, and expect government funds. Why not?
    [QUOTE]
    I guess the results speak for themselves. Even in the down economy GM is more profitable now than it's been in many years.
    Is that what the government is telling you?

    In any case, Obama didn't force this on GM & Chrysler. They came to him because they had no other options. If you come to the government on bended knee begging them to save your ass I think it's fair to expect that the government may impose some conditions, don't you?
    If I were President they wouldn't receive a penny. It was a mistake for Reagan to bail out Chrysler then and a mistake to bail them or GM out later.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then why not name them? Where's your problem? For the fourth time, which foreign brands concern you?
    You want me to name every car brand besides the big three? Sorry, I think you can figure that out on your own. I know this is really screwing with your little trap, where you want to spring on me the fact that Toyota makes *the* most American car, etc., but that wasn't going to work, anyway. My point is that, on average, big three cars support more American jobs than other brands, so when you eliminate two of the big three you are also sending a significant number of jobs over seas.

    Some other facts about Toyota's Americanness:

    1. The Toyota plant built in Georgetown, Kentucky in 1987 was built with Japanese steel by a Japanese steel company.
    2. Toyota was given 1,500 acres of free land.
    3. A "special trade zone" was established so Toyota could import parts duty-free from Japan.
    4. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan.
    5. Total federal, state, and local tax incentives (tax giveaways) reached $100 million, courtesy of your tax dollars and mine.
    http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/bamw/bamw-111009.shtml
    Last edited by AdamT; 12-12-11 at 06:23 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You want me to name every car brand besides the big three? Sorry, I think you can figure that out on your own. I know this is really screwing with your little trap, where you want to spring on me the fact that Toyota makes *the* most American car, etc., but that wasn't going to work, anyway. My point is that, on average, big three cars support more American jobs than other brands, so when you eliminate two of the big three you are also sending a significant number of jobs over seas.
    Any "trap" there was was set by yourself because you know that these other vehicles are manufactured in the United States. Any shortage of GM or Chrysler products could easily be picked up by Toyota, Ford, Honda, etc. and apparently the buying public feels thats not such a bad choice.

    There was little public demand that the supply of GM or Chrysler products be maintained and little evident desire that the government become involved in the automobile industry.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Any "trap" there was was set by yourself because you know that these other vehicles are manufactured in the United States. Any shortage of GM or Chrysler products could easily be picked up by Toyota, Ford, Honda, etc. and apparently the buying public feels thats not such a bad choice.

    There was little public demand that the supply of GM or Chrysler products be maintained and little evident desire that the government become involved in the automobile industry.
    I never denied that some foreign brand cars are built in the U.S. -- or that some aren't. For that matter, some GM and Chrysler cars are built in Mexico, Canada, etc. But on average, a big three car supports more American jobs than a car from other makes. As well, profits stay in the U.S. and are not repatriated to Japan, Korea, or Germany. Taxes are paid in the U.S. Design and engieering is done in the U.S. (the best paying auto industry jobs, outside of executive level). And let's also not forget that there are national security reasons supporting the need for a strong U.S. auto industry with U.S. manufacturers.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I never denied that some foreign brand cars are built in the U.S. -- or that some aren't. For that matter, some GM and Chrysler cars are built in Mexico, Canada, etc. But on average, a big three car supports more American jobs than a car from other makes. As well, profits stay in the U.S. and are not repatriated to Japan, Korea, or Germany. Taxes are paid in the U.S. Design and engieering is done in the U.S. (the best paying auto industry jobs, outside of executive level). And let's also not forget that there are national security reasons supporting the need for a strong U.S. auto industry with U.S. manufacturers.
    So the bailout was also for national security reasons? I really didn't know that.

    If two out of the big three cannot compete on equal footing with other auto manufacturers then perhaps they should all be in another line of work, rather than having to rely on the government to carry them along.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So the bailout was also for national security reasons? I really didn't know that.
    Well now you know!

    Op-Ed Contributor - What’s Good for G.M. Is Good for the Army - NYTimes.com

    If two out of the big three cannot compete on equal footing with other auto manufacturers then perhaps they should all be in another line of work, rather than having to rely on the government to carry them along.
    Yeah, I can go for that. As soon as South Korea stops supporting their auto industry, and Japanese and German and Korean government stop paying for the health care of their auto workers, then maybe we should consider not supporting our industry, too. Of course the Japanese government would never assist *their* auto industry! Japan Extends Tax Break to Aid Automakers as Recovery Falters - Businessweek

    Germany would never do such a thing, either. Aid for Foreign Car Companies? Germany Extends Controversial but Popular 'Scrapping Bonus' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International Industry Economic Report

    Yep, we should all play on the same free market playing field!

    http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_us_lags_auto/
    Last edited by AdamT; 12-12-11 at 06:53 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You got me there, Dittohead not!

    It should have been pointed out by someone, I suppose, that this sort of action could eventually lead to a serious abuse of power, even if everyone does give Barrack Obama and his 'Czars' every benefit of the doubt. What is to stop them from doing the same to small companies, mom and pop stores, or any business whatsoever. All they have to do is claim it is the national interest, as also goes the argument here, and it becomes an easy sell. This seems seriously short sighted to me. That, to paraphrase Barrack Obama, is not the America I know.

    And what is especially concerning in these similar areas is the fairly recent decision of the Supreme Court, as outlined here. Government Seizure of Private Assets: A Clear and Present Danger to America | Sensible Thought




    Hmmm, Government control of the means of production. For some reason that phrase seems foreign, yet oddly familiar.
    Yes, it does. I've heard it somewhere.

    Imminent domain doesn't bother me so much, as the government has to pay for the property it takes. Some projects, like roads and railroads, just couldn't be done without it. It does have a potential for abuse. We had such a situation locally, until the citizenry got up in arms and put a stop to it.

    As for asset forfeiture, that one is clearly unconstitutional and needs to be stopped ASAP, yet no one seems to care. Notice my sig line?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Well now you know!

    Op-Ed Contributor - What’s Good for G.M. Is Good for the Army - NYTimes.com



    Yeah, I can go for that. As soon as South Korea stops supporting their auto industry, and Japanese and German and Korean government stop paying for the health care of their auto workers, then maybe we should consider not supporting our industry, too. Of course the Japanese government would never assist *their* auto industry! Japan Extends Tax Break to Aid Automakers as Recovery Falters - Businessweek

    Germany would never do such a thing, either. Aid for Foreign Car Companies? Germany Extends Controversial but Popular 'Scrapping Bonus' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International Industry Economic Report

    Yep, we should all play on the same free market playing field!

    U.S. Lags in Auto Industry Support
    You can see the devarytion in mant of these countries by government involvement in the marketplace but it seems that Americans must go through the same lessons learned elsewhere.

    I read most of the links and they are opinions, not fact, with just too much to take the time to comment on.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, it does. I've heard it somewhere.

    Imminent domain doesn't bother me so much, as the government has to pay for the property it takes. Some projects, like roads and railroads, just couldn't be done without it. It does have a potential for abuse. We had such a situation locally, until the citizenry got up in arms and put a stop to it.

    As for asset forfeiture, that one is clearly unconstitutional and needs to be stopped ASAP, yet no one seems to care. Notice my sig line?
    Got it, and I hope more people do. Yes it is outrageous yet there is a definite lack of outrage. What to do?

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Who said anything about discouraging foreign investment? Did you forget that Chrysler was taken over by Fiat?

    While it's true that car manufacturing is international, Detroit still leads over all in U.S. production:
    I cannot confirm it but heard on the radio on my way home this evening that Alabama is poised to take one of the top spots for auto manufacturing in the US. We have low tax rates, a highly educated work force and no unions.

    Most of us wear shoes, at least on Sundays at church. So you never can tell.

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