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Thread: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Results matter but they don't to a liberal where ideology trumps actual results. Reagan added 1.7 trillion to the debt and created 17 million jobs and doubled GDP. Obama has added 4.5 trillion to the debt and has a net job loss, declining labor force, and fewer people employed. live with it
    1st, presidents don't have control. Congress has more, but still limited and not able to fix the problems we ahve. Government is not the answer, especially limited government. If you want to hold government responsible, you have to give government control. I don't advise that. You seem to be arguing for government control, and I don't think you realize it.

    Second, it's not a bad thing to be smart. So, criticising Obama for being smart is kind of silly. That said, being smart doesn't mean you do things outside your ability or what is allowed by law.

    Just saying.. . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    For the third time now, can you name these 'foreign brands' that have you concerned?
    Seriously, are you dense? I'm talking about brands other than the big three.

    What jobs are lost in one area will be gained in another. There would only be a slump in the auto industry if people stopped buying cars.
    Sure, but a lot of the jobs lost in the U.S. would be jobs gained in Japan, S. Korea, and Germany. Not sure how I can make that any clearer....

    Then why did BHO fire Wagoner when BHO had no business experience whatsoever? BHO wants the patience of the American peole for an economic recovery that he did not offer to the President of GM. Isn't that true? Applying Obama's own rules, he should be fired at the nd of his term.
    He fired Wagoner because the turnaround expert he brought in to study the company determined that Wagoner was detrimental to the turnaround. That expert was Steve Rattner, formerly of the Quadrangle Group -- a private equity firm Rattner helped grow from $1 billion in capital to $6 billion in capital over a period of eight years. When Rattner left they brought in Ed Whitacre, the former CEO of AT&T. As far as giving Wagoner a chance, he was CEO of GM for eight years, during which time the company lost $85 billion. I think that's enough time to draw conclusions.

    It seems that since BHO left Chicago for DC and became an expert in Detroit, everyone has become a professional in the auto industry. But I guess if BHO can catch on in weeks just whats wrong in an international corporation then anyone can. We're all geniuses now.
    I guess the results speak for themselves. Even in the down economy GM is more profitable now than it's been in many years. In any case, Obama didn't force this on GM & Chrysler. They came to him because they had no other options. If you come to the government on bended knee begging them to save your ass I think it's fair to expect that the government may impose some conditions, don't you?
    Last edited by AdamT; 12-12-11 at 05:23 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    1st, presidents don't have control. Congress has more, but still limited and not able to fix the problems we ahve. Government is not the answer, especially limited government. If you want to hold government responsible, you have to give government control. I don't advise that. You seem to be arguing for government control, and I don't think you realize it.

    Second, it's not a bad thing to be smart. So, criticising Obama for being smart is kind of silly. That said, being smart doesn't mean you do things outside your ability or what is allowed by law.

    Just saying.. . .
    Leadership matters and a President can show leadership with his words as well as his actions. Obama lacks basic leadership skills and has a do as I say not as I do attitude. The results speak for themselves just like the rhetoric.

    Reagan v. Obama from iOwnTheWorld.com - YouTube

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    1st, presidents don't have control. Congress has more, but still limited and not able to fix the problems we ahve. Government is not the answer, especially limited government. If you want to hold government responsible, you have to give government control. I don't advise that. You seem to be arguing for government control, and I don't think you realize it.

    Second, it's not a bad thing to be smart. So, criticising Obama for being smart is kind of silly. That said, being smart doesn't mean you do things outside your ability or what is allowed by law.

    Just saying.. . .
    Well, you know how liberals think. Everything depends on the government. It's up to the government to create jobs, so if there were jobs created, then it had to have been the government that did it, in particular, the executive branch. If the economy is bad, then it is the fault of government, and it's up to the government to fix the problem Big government is the solution to everything.

    Yet, liberals think they're conservatives. Go figure.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Leadership matters and a President can show leadership with his words as well as his actions. Obama lacks basic leadership skills and has a do as I say not as I do attitude. The results speak for themselves just like the rhetoric.

    Reagan v. Obama from iOwnTheWorld.com - YouTube
    Yes, leadership is important, but not control. There are somethings beyond government. You need to ask yourself exactly what you want Obama to do.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, leadership is important, but not control. There are somethings beyond government. You need to ask yourself exactly what you want Obama to do.
    It would be great to have a President that stopped micro managing a private sector economy that he doesn't understand. he had no business taking over GM/Chrysler, he has no business imposing healthcare which is a personal responsibility issue on the American people, he has no business demonizing the rich and promoting redistribution of wealth, and he has no business promoting class warfare in his speeches. He cannot run on his record so he needs to demonize someone else and that isn't the kind of leadership this country needs.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It would be great to have a President that stopped micro managing a private sector economy that he doesn't understand. he had no business taking over GM/Chrysler, he has no business imposing healthcare which is a personal responsibility issue on the American people, he has no business demonizing the rich and promoting redistribution of wealth, and he has no business promoting class warfare in his speeches. He cannot run on his record so he needs to demonize someone else and that isn't the kind of leadership this country needs.
    You realize, the less he does, the less control he has. Just think you should know that. But I don't think he is micro managing, and frankly your posts seem to suggest you don't either. And he is not running GM/Chrysler. That's more hype than reality.

    And frankly, you folks demonize the poor and working people than he does the rich. It's kind of like a pot and kettle thing. And much more fantasy on your part.

    But I asked what you wanted him to do to improve the economy. If you think he has control, give me something he controls.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You realize, the less he does, the less control he has. Just think you should know that. But I don't think he is micro managing, and frankly your posts seem to suggest you don't either. And he is not running GM/Chrysler. That's more hype than reality.

    And frankly, you folks demonize the poor and working people than he does the rich. It's kind of like a pot and kettle thing. And much more fantasy on your part.

    But I asked what you wanted him to do to improve the economy. If you think he has control, give me something he controls.
    You think it is demonizing the poor to expect people that can take care of themselves to do so? Do you think it is demonizing the poor to expect something out of taxpayer dollars? What demonization of the poor can you point to and be specfic

    As for control, he controls the executive orders he issues and he had total control of Pelosi and Reid thus the legislative and spending policies

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You think it is demonizing the poor to expect people that can take care of themselves to do so? Do you think it is demonizing the poor to expect something out of taxpayer dollars? What demonization of the poor can you point to and be specfic

    As for control, he controls the executive orders he issues and he had total control of Pelosi and Reid thus the legislative and spending policies
    You think most don't? Say a lot about you.

    Most people in this country work. That you think they don't, and speak only to a miniority, and apply to those who work, is demonizing.

    And no excutive order actually does anything to control the economy. Nor does congress. This is my poitn you keep running around.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post

    How is it a president can use tax money to take over a corporation, then fire the CEO?

    Is that power covered somewhere in the Constitution?
    You got me there, Dittohead not!

    It should have been pointed out by someone, I suppose, that this sort of action could eventually lead to a serious abuse of power, even if everyone does give Barrack Obama and his 'Czars' every benefit of the doubt. What is to stop them from doing the same to small companies, mom and pop stores, or any business whatsoever. All they have to do is claim it is the national interest, as also goes the argument here, and it becomes an easy sell. This seems seriously short sighted to me. That, to paraphrase Barrack Obama, is not the America I know.

    And what is especially concerning in these similar areas is the fairly recent decision of the Supreme Court, as outlined here. Government Seizure of Private Assets: A Clear and Present Danger to America | Sensible Thought


    or was it an experiment in socialism, real socialism, not just a government program that is being called that by its opponents? The government taking over an automaker, firing the CEO, mandating (was it a mandate?) that the company produce certain sorts of vehicles, doesn't that describe government control of the means of production?
    Hmmm, Government control of the means of production. For some reason that phrase seems foreign, yet oddly familiar.
    Last edited by Grant; 12-12-11 at 05:51 PM.

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