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Thread: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I think we're getting a bit confused here. The argument was that America wouldn't lose any jobs if GM and Chrysler failed because people would just buy other cars. My response was that yes, they would, but on the whole other cars support fewer American jobs.
    How so? The American people will continue to drive cars and the dealers will sell thm and they'll be maintained by mechanics. Whats the difference? Just which foreign brands are of a concern to you?

    I'm not seeing how the whole economy has been distorted. In fact it was the distorted economy that brought GM and Chrysler to their knees.
    It was bad business decisions and bad union contracts. The American economy would have survived without any bailouts to these companies.

    The GM Volt was planned long before Obama was even a glimmer in America's eye. It was the vision of Rick Wagoner -- that guy y'all think should never have been fired.
    I never mentioned Rick Wagoner one way or the other so have no idea who you're referring to here. It's my guess though that he had more experience in the industry than BHO and, as in the case of George Bush, BHO seems to be complaining a lot yet carrying on with the same policies.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have a different memory than you, the Reagan budgets were less than the Congress wanted and because of the increase in revenue that Congress expanded social spending thus were more than Reagan requested. Riders were placed on military spending bills were increased to fund social spending. Regardless what many want to ignore is that GDP doubled during the Reagan term and after two years of lost jobs Reagan ended up with a net increase of almost 17 million jobs at a cost of 1.7 trillion added to the debt.

    Today we have a net job loss and 4.5 trillion added to the debt since January 21, 2009
    When you compare what was actually spent with what was proposed, then the former is a little bit more:

    Fiscal Year Proposed Actual % Difference (Cumulative)
    1982 695.3 745.8 7.3
    1983 773.3 808.4 4.5 (12.1)
    1984 862.5 851.8 -1.2 (10.8)
    1985 940.3 946.4 0.7 (11.6)
    1986 973.7 990.3 1.7 (13.5)
    1987 994.0 1003.9 1.0 (14.6)
    1988 1024.3 1064.1 3.9 (19.1)
    1989 1094.2 1144.2 4.6 (24.5)
    ______________________________________
    Totals $7,357.6 $7,554.9 Avg 2.8 (3.1)
    However:

    What supply-siders are doing with the above chart, then, is comparing what was spent in the real world with what Reagan proposed in 8 Rosy Scenarios. They then blame the difference on Congressional action -- despite the fact that Congress didn't act on these increases.

    The ruse is akin to a President proposing to spend one dollar on the budget next year, and blaming Congress for (inevitably) exceeding this proposal. Even if it turns out that Congress cuts the real budget, and the economy does better than normal!
    This site does have some other interesting stats as well:

    (Growth of government spending)
    Average Annual Growth:
    President Before servicing debt After servicing debt
    Nixon 4.2% 4.2%
    Ford 3.3 3.1
    Carter 3.4 2.6
    Reagan (82-87) 1.8 1.1
    Reagan (82-89) 2.0 1.3
    Bush 1.0 1.2
    Clinton 1.0 0.4
    So, Reagan and Obama are two peas in a pod, right?
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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    When you compare what was actually spent with what was proposed, then the former is a little bit more:



    However:



    This site does have some other interesting stats as well:

    (Growth of government spending)


    So, Reagan and Obama are two peas in a pod, right?
    i don't see the Obama spending in your chart but with regard to results it only be the rabid hatred for Reagan that ignores the 17 million jobs created during his term as well as the doubling of GDP. in addition FIT increased after the Reagan Tax cuts because of 17 million new taxpayers. Seems results regarding Reagan focus on the debt and not the job creation and economic growth whereas the results of obama are focused on what happened during the Reagan and Bush years.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How so? The American people will continue to drive cars and the dealers will sell thm and they'll be maintained by mechanics. Whats the difference? Just which foreign brands are of a concern to you?
    This is not complicated -- try to think about it. On average a car sold by the big three supports more American jobs than a car sold by other manufacturers. Therefore, if GM and Chrysler go out of business, the economy loses jobs. Just math and common sense.

    It was bad business decisions and bad union contracts. The American economy would have survived without any bailouts to these companies.
    It was bad decisions and contracts, coupled with the Great Recession. GM was already restructuring and probably would have pulled through if the economy hadn't tanked when it did. Chrysler probably would have merged with Fiat either way, though on more favorable terms.

    I never mentioned Rick Wagoner one way or the other so have no idea who you're referring to here. It's my guess though that he had more experience in the industry than BHO and, as in the case of George Bush, BHO seems to be complaining a lot yet carrying on with the same policies.
    It's a frequent charge by conservatives that Wagoner shouldn't have been fired, notwithstanding the fact that the company performed miserably under his stewardship. Of course Obama has never had a role in running the company. That task was given to two very competent CEOs with vast experience turning around large corporations.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    i don't see the Obama spending in your chart but with regard to results it only be the rabid hatred for Reagan that ignores the 17 million jobs created during his term as well as the doubling of GDP. in addition FIT increased after the Reagan Tax cuts because of 17 million new taxpayers. Seems results regarding Reagan focus on the debt and not the job creation and economic growth whereas the results of obama are focused on what happened during the Reagan and Bush years.
    Do you think that the growth of federal spending under Reagan was responsible for creating all those jobs?

    If not, the what could it have been?
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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    LOL, so Reagan who left office in 1989 caused the recession that Obama inherited? I certainly understand how tough it must be on your looking at the 17 million jobs Reagan created and the doubling of GDP when "your" President has added 4.5 trillion to the debt, has a net job loss, declining labor force, less than 2% GDP growth, and a rising misery index. Anyone that supports this President is truly a leftwing ideologue for those results apparently are outstanding and exactly what the liberals want

    Well shooter evidently was a disciple of voodoo/Reagan economics when he made this quote “Reagan proved deficits don't matter “.

    But the post that you quoted was about “ideologues “. I can understand your reason for wanting to get off of that subject though.
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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    This is not complicated -- try to think about it. On average a car sold by the big three supports more American jobs than a car sold by other manufacturers. Therefore, if GM and Chrysler go out of business, the economy loses jobs. Just math and common sense.
    For the third time now, can you name these 'foreign brands' that have you concerned?

    What jobs are lost in one area will be gained in another. There would only be a slump in the auto industry if people stopped buying cars.
    It was bad decisions and contracts, coupled with the Great Recession.
    Yes, bad decisions and bad union contracts. Let's not eras the union pa
    rt.

    GM was already restructuring and probably would have pulled through if the economy hadn't tanked when it did.
    Then why did BHO fire Wagoner when BHO had no business experience whatsoever? BHO wants the patience of the American peole for an economic recovery that he did not offer to the President of GM. Isn't that true? Applying Obama's own rules, he should be fired at the nd of his term.

    Chrysler probably would have merged with Fiat either way, though on more favorable terms.
    It seems that since BHO left Chicago for DC and became an expert in Detroit, everyone has become a professional in the auto industry. But I guess if BHO can catch on in weeks just whats wrong in an international corporation then anyone can. We're all geniuses now.

    It's a frequent charge by conservatives that Wagoner shouldn't have been fired, notwithstanding the fact that the company performed miserably under his stewardship. Of course Obama has never had a role in running the company. That task was given to two very competent CEOs with vast experience turning around large corporations.
    Well I never mentioned Wagoner so am not part of the y'all. Who were these two very competent experts hired by Obama?

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Do you think that the growth of federal spending under Reagan was responsible for creating all those jobs?

    If not, the what could it have been?
    Not nearly as much as many think, the tax cuts which spurred spending was more responsible for the economic growth and job creations

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    [QUOTE=Grant;1060022147]

    For the third time now, can you name these 'foreign brands' that have you concerned?

    What jobs are lost in one area will be gained in another. There would only be a slump in the auto industry if people stopped buying cars.


    Yes, bad decisions and bad union contracts. Let's not eras the union pa

    Then why did BHO fire Wagoner when BHO had no business experience whatsoever? BHO wants the patience of the American peole for an economic recovery that he did not offer to the President of GM. Isn't that true? Applying Obama's own rules, he should be fired at the nd of his term.



    It seems that since BHO left Chicago for DC and became an expert in Detroit, everyone has become a professional in the auto industry. But I guess if BHO can catch on in weeks just whats wrong in an international corporation then anyone can. We're all geniuses now.



    Well I never mentioned Wagoner so am not part of the y'all. Who were these two very competent experts hired by Obama?
    How is it a president can use tax money to take over a corporation, then fire the CEO?

    Is that power covered somewhere in the Constitution?

    or was it an experiment in socialism, real socialism, not just a government program that is being called that by its opponents? The government taking over an automaker, firing the CEO, mandating (was it a mandate?) that the company produce certain sorts of vehicles, doesn't that describe government control of the means of production?
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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    Well shooter evidently was a disciple of voodoo/Reagan economics when he made this quote “Reagan proved deficits don't matter “.

    But the post that you quoted was about “ideologues “. I can understand your reason for wanting to get off of that subject though.
    Results matter but they don't to a liberal where ideology trumps actual results. Reagan added 1.7 trillion to the debt and created 17 million jobs and doubled GDP. Obama has added 4.5 trillion to the debt and has a net job loss, declining labor force, and fewer people employed. live with it

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