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Thread: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I guess I missed the crowds with torches and pitchforks marching towards Tip's office.

    Reagan hardly had a massive mandate in his first term. Obama had a bigger percentage of the popular vote ... and Reagan was running against Carter! And Reagan's approval rating followed a course eerily similar to Obama's.

    The fact is that Reagan and O'Neill worked together. Otherwise Reagan never would have gotten his economic plan through Congress.
    Guess you missed the landslide victory Reagan won in 1984 too or the flooding of calls and letters to Congress supporting the Reagan agenda to get us out of the Carter malaise. You seem to be again focused on diverting to the past to keep from talking about the Obama results. Let me remind you, in 8 years Reagan had a net job increase of almost 17 million and added 1.7 trillion to the debt. In Three years Obama has a 4.5 trillion increase in the debt and a net job loss. Quite telling that you support the Obama results

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have a different memory than you, the Reagan budgets were less than the Congress wanted and because of the increase in revenue that Congress expanded social spending thus were more than Reagan requested. Riders were placed on military spending bills were increased to fund social spending. Regardless what many want to ignore is that GDP doubled during the Reagan term and after two years of lost jobs Reagan ended up with a net increase of almost 17 million jobs at a cost of 1.7 trillion added to the debt.

    Today we have a net job loss and 4.5 trillion added to the debt since January 21, 2009
    And in today's dollars Reagan ran up a $3 trillion deficit. What's worse, the structural changes he made to the tax code contributed to all the deficits that followed.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And in today's dollars Reagan ran up a $3 trillion deficit. What's worse, the structural changes he made to the tax code contributed to all the deficits that followed.
    We didn't pay debt service in the 80's in today's dollars nor did we spend money or take in revenue in the 80's in today's dollars.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Guess you missed the landslide victory Reagan won in 1984 too or the flooding of calls and letters to Congress supporting the Reagan agenda to get us out of the Carter malaise. You seem to be again focused on diverting to the past to keep from talking about the Obama results. Let me remind you, in 8 years Reagan had a net job increase of almost 17 million and added 1.7 trillion to the debt. In Three years Obama has a 4.5 trillion increase in the debt and a net job loss. Quite telling that you support the Obama results
    Very different economic conditions then versus now. And Reagan had a Congress that did not oppose his every proposal in lock-step fashion.

    The misery index during Reagan's first three years FAR exceeded the misery index during Obama's first three years. We'll see how Obama compares over all after his second term.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    We didn't pay debt service in the 80's in today's dollars nor did we spend money or take in revenue in the 80's in today's dollars.
    Dude, wake up. You can't compare dollar amounts across a three decade span without converting them into constant dollars. That would be ridiculously dishonest.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Very different economic conditions then versus now. And Reagan had a Congress that did not oppose his every proposal in lock-step fashion.

    The misery index during Reagan's first three years FAR exceeded the misery index during Obama's first three years. We'll see how Obama compares over all after his second term.
    Just goes to show that you have very little knowledge of the 80's. Reagan inherited a 19.33 misery index and reduced it, Obama inherited a 7.87 misery index and increased it. Yes, I see the difference. Reagan increased employment by almost 17 million, Obama has lost jobs. Reagan doubled GDP and Obama has 2% GDP growth

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Dude, wake up. You can't compare dollar amounts across a three decade span without converting them into constant dollars. That would be ridiculously dishonest.
    You count the dollar amount in the debt service paid by the electorate and the results generated by the spending. Results matter, not your rhetoric and ignoring the Obama results.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Dude, wake up. You can't compare dollar amounts across a three decade span without converting them into constant dollars. That would be ridiculously dishonest.
    You are barking up the wrong tree. I gave him a tutorial on that a few months ago.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-u...post1059892931
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    For Conservative, here is a tutorial in inflation adjusted dollars:

    It's year one, and guess what buddy? You have one whole dollar in your pocket! Year one has a nice inflation rate of 2%. Year 2 has an inflation rate of 3%, and year 3 has an inflation rate of 5%. In year 1, you earned 5 cents, nice job! In year two, you earned 10 cents! Wow, way to go! In year 3, you earned nothing. You're a sad panda.

    Money You Earned With Inflation
    Jan 1 Year 1: 1
    Jan 1 Year 2: 1.02 + .05 = 1.07
    Jan 1 Year 3: (1.07)(1.03) + .1 = 1.20
    Jan 1 Year 4: (1.2)(1.05) + 0 = 1.26

    Percent Change Without Adjusting For Inflation
    Year 1: 7%
    Year 2: 10.83%
    Year 3: 4.76%

    But in reality, you didn't earn **** in year 3. It should be a zero, but because of inflation, you netted positive. So, adjusting for inflation:

    Year 1: (1.07)/(1.02) = 1.05
    Year 2: (1.20)/[(1.03)(1.02)] = 1.14
    Year 3: (1.26)/[(1.05)(1.03)(1.02)] = 1.14

    Percent Change In Dollars Adjusted For Inflation
    Year 1: 5%
    Year 2: 7.89%
    Year 3: 0%
    His response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative
    Guess what, Buddy, it is three years into the Obama Administration and there are more unemployed, fewer jobs, higher debt, and a higher misery index. that is reality as is his Job Approval rating. Still supporting this President?
    What can you do about it?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You count the dollar amount in the debt service paid by the electorate and the results generated by the spending. Results matter, not your rhetoric and ignoring the Obama results.
    No, you convert the sums to constant dollars or you don't bother with the exercise, period.

    From WWII until 1980, the debt as a percentage of GDP consistently fell. Reagan blew that up and put in effect economic policies that have led directly to the current debt crisis. If the top effective tax rate had remained the same from 1986 until today, the total debt would stand around $2 trillion instead of $15 trillion. And that is according to Bruce Bartlett -- senior advisor to Ronald Reagan.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, you convert the sums to constant dollars or you don't bother with the exercise, period.

    From WWII until 1980, the debt as a percentage of GDP consistently fell. Reagan blew that up and put in effect economic policies that have led directly to the current debt crisis. If the top effective tax rate had remained the same from 1986 until today, the total debt would stand around $2 trillion instead of $15 trillion. And that is according to Bruce Bartlett -- senior advisor to Ronald Reagan.

    It kinda hard to argue with an ideologue Adam. So sad.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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