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Thread: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How would that result in the loss of a million jobs? Would people stop buying cars, or car parts?
    There would be the direct loss of jobs from GM and Chrysler factories, engineering, and marketing departments. There would be further direct losses from dealerships and advertising firms. There would be large-scale job losses from parts suppliers, many of whom would certainly go under. Many of those same suppliers also supply Ford and other US manufacturers, which would entail further job losses as their supply lines were disrupted. Why do you think that Ford was lobbying for the bailouts of two of its biggest competitors? You think they were just being sentimental? It would have also been a huge psychological shock to the markets. Recall the effect of Lehman's bankruptcy and multiply that by five.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Exactly. And people would just start buying other cars and more jobs would be created elsewhere.

    The United States survived quite well with the collapse of Packard, Studebaker, the Dusseldorf, etc. and to have bailed out these companies would have been heresy.
    You can't compare Packard and Studebaker to GM and Chrysler. They were tiny players who employed fewer than 1,000 people.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You can't compare Packard and Studebaker to GM and Chrysler. They were tiny players who employed fewer than 1,000 people.

    So you believe in "Too big to fail"?


    You're not going to get any 'up twinkles' for that my friend.....heh, heh....


    j-mac
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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You obviously haven't been paying any attention nor do you really care what I or anyone else has to say. I have posted the answers on various threads throughout this forum only to be attacked which of course I can handle but the leftwing ideologues don't want to hear anything that flies in the face of their ideology. It is imperative that we reject the class warfare rhetoric and demonization of individual wealth creation. Any conservative would do that and any conservative leader wouldn't be implementing things like Obamacare and attacks on the right to work states. You won't find any conservative demonizing the private sector and individuals creating more personal wealth. You won't see any conservative bailing out private sector companies just to save unions. You won't find any conservative demonizing personal responsibility and expanding the nanny state concept. You won't find any community organizers in the WH but instead individuals with real leadership skills.

    The following will give you some idea of real leadership and what any conservative will bring to the WH

    Reagan v. Obama from iOwnTheWorld.com - YouTube
    In our conversations it has become apparent to me that you may not understand what real leadership skills are. Let me explain a little, real leaders are willing to compromise in order to reach an agreement that best meets the needs of everyone involved I have not seen any indication from you that you are willing to compromise at all nor have I seen any indication from the Grover Norquist pledged and led conservatives that they are willing to compromise.

    I could pick apart your talking points but it would not matter at all to you, some where you formed the opinion that you know it all and it appears that nothing and no one will ever convince you to look at things from a different point of view.

    I will say this again it is impossible to compare the President Reagan presidency with the President Obama presidency for a number of reasons one and perhaps the most important distinctions is that President Reagan did not have to deal with an opposition party that refuses to compromise. Good leadership skills require idealogical give and take President Obama has shown that he willing to compromise and for that reason if none other he will be re-elected in 2012 and the American people will give him both houses and a opportunity to salvage the American economy

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you believe in "Too big to fail"?


    You're not going to get any 'up twinkles' for that my friend.....heh, heh....


    j-mac
    I don't believe in too big to fail under any circumtances, no. But under the particular circumstances we faced in '09, I think it would have been a catastrophic mistake to let GM and Chrysler fail.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There would be the direct loss of jobs from GM and Chrysler factories, engineering, and marketing departments.
    Right. Some companies fail and other companies pick up the slack. That's hardly unusual in any industry.

    There would be further direct losses from dealerships and advertising firms. There would be large-scale job losses from parts suppliers, many of whom would certainly go under. Many of those same suppliers also supply Ford and other US manufacturers, which would entail further job losses as their supply lines were disrupted. Why do you think that Ford was lobbying for the bailouts of two of its biggest competitors? You think they were just being sentimental? It would have also been a huge psychological shock to the markets. Recall the effect of Lehman's bankruptcy and multiply that by five.
    Again, other companies pick up the slack and more people are working aj making up this slack. People move on.

    The important thing is the market place, not who the producer of the products might be. It really doesn't matter whether Ford lobbies or not. The responsibility of the government is to the taxpayer, not GM or Ford or GE or WalMart.

    And billions of tax dollars were spent because of a possible "psychological shock"?? I think these guys are big boys and can figure out whats happening for themselves, and are always prepared for market lace shocks.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    [QUOTE=Grant;1060021388]

    Right. Some companies fail and other companies pick up the slack. That's hardly unusual in any industry.



    Again, other companies pick up the slack and more people are working aj making up this slack. People move on.

    The important thing is the market place, not who the producer of the products might be. It really doesn't matter whether Ford lobbies or not. The responsibility of the government is to the taxpayer, not GM or Ford or GE or WalMart.

    And billions of tax dollars were spent because of a possible "psychological shock"?? I think these guys are big boys and can figure out whats happening for themselves, and are always prepared for market lace shocks.
    Sure, other companies would have picked up the slack, eventually. But a lot of that slack would have been taken up by foreign brands. In the meantime, instead of peaking at an unemployment rate a little over 10%, we'd have been looking at UP of 11 - 12%. The markets would have puked, revenues would have fallen even farther, and tax expenditures would have risen to pay all those UP benefits. In other words, it was going to cost the government billions one way or the other.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I don't believe in too big to fail under any circumtances, no. But under the particular circumstances we faced in '09, I think it would have been a catastrophic mistake to let GM and Chrysler fail.
    What was catastrophic is the precedent it set that arge companies can go to the public purse to bail them out for their werrors.

    That's why this OWS thing makes no sense. They complain about corruption on Wall Street and many of these same people feel that its okay to bail them out. Its this confusion of laws, morals, cultures, poitical leanings and philosophies, that is leading to the clashes we see in the United States today. They have lost sight of who they are, what they were, what they want to be and where they are going.

    Does anyone sincerely believe anymore that the US is a free enterprise country with a strong and independent people?

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What was catastrophic is the precedent it set that arge companies can go to the public purse to bail them out for their werrors.

    That's why this OWS thing makes no sense. They complain about corruption on Wall Street and many of these same people feel that its okay to bail them out. Its this confusion of laws, morals, cultures, poitical leanings and philosophies, that is leading to the clashes we see in the United States today. They have lost sight of who they are, what they were, what they want to be and where they are going.

    Does anyone sincerely believe anymore that the US is a free enterprise country with a strong and independent people?
    I don't necessarily see government assistance to industry as bad, let alone catastrophic. It has certainly been invaluable to the S. Korean industrial giants who are kicking ass and taking names.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I don't believe in too big to fail under any circumtances, no. But under the particular circumstances we faced in '09, I think it would have been a catastrophic mistake to let GM and Chrysler fail.

    How utterly contradictory of you.

    Anyway concerning the actual topic of this thread of unemployment falling to 8.6%, Ezra Klein disagrees.

    Wonkbook: The real unemployment rate is 11 percent - The Washington Post

    heh, heh....

    j-mac
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