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Thread: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Easy, you're making a leap not supported by facts. Who exactly isn't making a profit? Such a business won't stay in business, so I don't accept your position, and it is not an answer to his comment.
    So? Here is what he quoted:
    Chevrolet sold 1.2 million vehicles globally in the third quarter, the best July-to-September results in the brand’s 100-year history. In the first nine months of 2011, Chevrolet sold 3.6 million vehicles globally, positioning the brand for its best-ever calendar-year sales.

    Given that government motors had billions of taxpayer dollars given to them, they ought to have had large sales. They no longer have all of the usual market forces at play. Is that clearer? They are propped up. Is that clearer?

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I don't care whether you accept it or not. The post was not directed to you.
    Doesn't matter. You present something rather poor as a source goes.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    So? Here is what he quoted:
    Chevrolet sold 1.2 million vehicles globally in the third quarter, the best July-to-September results in the brand’s 100-year history. In the first nine months of 2011, Chevrolet sold 3.6 million vehicles globally, positioning the brand for its best-ever calendar-year sales.

    Given that government motors had billions of taxpayer dollars given to them, they ought to have had large sales. They no longer have all of the usual market forces at play. Is that clearer? They are propped up. Is that clearer?
    Did they not make a profit? There was still a need to make a profit, is that not so?

    And that wasn't giving to unions? That's more than a huge leap on your part, a factually inaccurate leap.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's just more opinion that Obama bailed out GM in order to save the unions. In the unlikely event that is true, there still was no government money given to unions. It was given to GM. Further, wasn't that TARP money that went to GM? Wasn't TARP signed into law by Bush? or is my timeline off here?
    I believe Obama did more than bailout GM/Chrysler, he took majority ownership and then fired the CEO. Bush gave a loan guarantee to GM but never came close to taking them over. I truly believe that Obama's move was politically motivated and had nothing to do with doing what was right, which IMO was to let the market take care of GM

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I believe Obama did more than bailout GM/Chrysler, he took majority ownership and then fired the CEO. Bush gave a loan guarantee to GM but never came close to taking them over. I truly believe that Obama's move was politically motivated and had nothing to do with doing what was right, which IMO was to let the market take care of GM
    There was no other option short of simply giving them the money. Securing the bailout funds with stock ownership was the best way to go. It didn't take long to get them to a point where they could do an IPO and reduce government ownership to minority status. Wagoner should have been fired YEARS before GM's fortunes came to a head. That was absolutely a necessary move.

    You can bitch and moan about how it was done, but there is no question that they were goners without the bailout and they are now on the path to profitability. The consequences of failure right at the depths of the recession would have been enormous: far worse than Lehman.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There was no other option short of simply giving them the money. Securing the bailout funds with stock ownership was the best way to go. It didn't take long to get them to a point where they could do an IPO and reduce government ownership to minority status. Wagoner should have been fired YEARS before GM's fortunes came to a head. That was absolutely a necessary move.

    You can bitch and moan about how it was done, but there is no question that they were goners without the bailout and they are now on the path to profitability. The consequences of failure right at the depths of the recession would have been enormous: far worse than Lehman.
    Your opinion is noted

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Did they not make a profit? There was still a need to make a profit, is that not so?

    And that wasn't giving to unions? That's more than a huge leap on your part, a factually inaccurate leap.
    No profit is mentioned in that article. And what would it look like? The government essentially nationalized GM with 50 billion dollars of taxpayers money. I suppose having a 50 billion dollar sugar daddy isn't a big deal to you. But it sure would ease market pressures, dontcha think?

    So what would a profit look like? They don't have to account for the cost of money I suppose.

    Fun stuff:

    The Treasury Department took majority ownership of GM in 2009.

    In all, the government pumped about $81 billion into rescues of GM, Chrysler Group LLC and their affiliated credit arms, and has about $51 billion left to recover... The government sold some of its shares a year ago so taxpayers own about 1/3rd of GM instead of 2/3rds.

    There are articles floating the idea that the government should sell its remaining shares at a loss...hmmm, I wonder why?

    I believe it was the wrong thing to do.

    Oh, what about the unions? Who is paying the union pensions? Taxpayers? I could not find a clear answer.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 12-11-11 at 05:50 PM. Reason: more facts

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Umm, the bill was voted on and passed in committee... I didn't say Republicans were against it, nice strawman ... I said Democrats didn't block it; and they didn't. As the minority party, they were outnumbered 11 to 9. Senate leadership never brought the bill to the floor for a full vote in the Senate.

    Do you understand now?
    More than you do.

    Last Action:

    Jul 28, 2005: Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. Ordered to be reported with an amendment in the nature of a substitute favorably.
    So it came out of committee and never went for a general vote. Could mean no cloture, could mean parliamentary action etc etc. We dont know.

    So if all the democrats voted against it, how do you then say Republicans are responsible? Party of no and all that crap get tossed around pretty, ahem liberally, pardon the pun.

    So, does that mean all the bills in the Senate right now, not getting passed are the fault of the Dems? Since the house already passed them.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    No profit is mentioned in that article. And what would it look like? The government essentially nationalized GM with 50 billion dollars of taxpayers money. I suppose having a 50 billion dollar sugar daddy isn't a big deal to you. But it sure would ease market pressures, dontcha think?

    So what would a profit look like? They don't have to account for the cost of money I suppose.

    Fun stuff:

    The Treasury Department took majority ownership of GM in 2009.

    In all, the government pumped about $81 billion into rescues of GM, Chrysler Group LLC and their affiliated credit arms, and has about $51 billion left to recover... The government sold some of its shares a year ago so taxpayers own about 1/3rd of GM instead of 2/3rds.

    There are articles floating the idea that the government should sell its remaining shares at a loss...hmmm, I wonder why?

    I believe it was the wrong thing to do.

    Oh, what about the unions? Who is paying the union pensions? Taxpayers? I could not find a clear answer.
    Actually taxpayers now own about 25% of GM, not one third.

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    Re: U.S. Jobless Rate Unexpectedly Declines to 8.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The last statement is correct.

    It is not a problem with "liberals", however you define it. We have a failure of government to govern.
    Thank you ... it's not one party .. . it's both of them ..

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