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Thread: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Let's say Billy Martin decides AQ has it right, converts to Islam, and joins the fight against the "great satan". Now, let's say we find out that a group of AQ are meeting at Salid's Goat Hut, to plot their next move. Billy, now Abdul of course, is with them and we know it.

    The area is guarded, the simple answer is to drop a JDAM on their asses. To hear most of you, that would be depriving Billy aka Abdul his Constitutional Rights. Which leaves us in a quandary. Do you send in a team to arrest Billy aka Abdul and possibly others? Do you not make a move because the cost of going in with boots is too high?

    HELL NO. You lob a few hundred pounds of high explosives, precision guided and wrapped in lots of shrapnel (that's bomb casing for you non-military types) and you handle business.

    IF there is a point of contention I have with Obama on this, is his insistence that the Executive is ABOVE the courts, but that's a completely separate matter, altogether.
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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Let's say Billy Martin decides AQ has it right, converts to Islam, and joins the fight against the "great satan". Now, let's say we find out that a group of AQ are meeting at Salid's Goat Hut, to plot their next move. Billy, now Abdul of course, is with them and we know it.

    The area is guarded, the simple answer is to drop a JDAM on their asses. To hear most of you, that would be depriving Billy aka Abdul his Constitutional Rights. Which leaves us in a quandary. Do you send in a team to arrest Billy aka Abdul and possibly others? Do you not make a move because the cost of going in with boots is too high?

    HELL NO. You lob a few hundred pounds of high explosives, precision guided and wrapped in lots of shrapnel (that's bomb casing for you non-military types) and you handle business.

    IF there is a point of contention I have with Obama on this, is his insistence that the Executive is ABOVE the courts, but that's a completely separate matter, altogether.
    Are you suggesting that we have no rule of law for Billy? Taht we could not stop him, as we know, without destorying much property and maybe taking innocent lives? Or are you arguing we really need to be more like Iran or NK or China, as our way, the way of rule of law, is too sissy for us to believe in?

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Let's say Billy Martin decides AQ has it right, converts to Islam, and joins the fight against the "great satan". Now, let's say we find out that a group of AQ are meeting at Salid's Goat Hut, to plot their next move. Billy, now Abdul of course, is with them and we know it.

    The area is guarded, the simple answer is to drop a JDAM on their asses. To hear most of you, that would be depriving Billy aka Abdul his Constitutional Rights. Which leaves us in a quandary. Do you send in a team to arrest Billy aka Abdul and possibly others? Do you not make a move because the cost of going in with boots is too high?
    No, but you can not issue an order to kill Billy without a trial. We have Constitutional protections such as free speech to use one example. The government can not infringe upon that right but that does not mean that there are never going to be any repercussions if you excersize that right.

    If Obama visits your place of work and you yell out "Obama is a scum bag", Obama can not do a thing to you. Your company can though. If I decide to go visit the local Al-Queda bomb maker and the military decides to take him out, well, I made a bad decision. The government can not order that you be taken out though without a trial.

    It may seem to some to not be much of a distinction, but it is.

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Huh uh. How you gonna arrest a guy in the middle of a battlefield firing at US Soldiers. "Sorry Billy, your Dad died trying to arrest a man because we couldn't kill him, it would violate his rights."

    Get over it, you take up arms against this country, guess what, you lose your rights. That's how it works bub.
    i would agree wholeheartedly with you about the battlefield scenario, mr. v, but the concern that activists have is that american citizens can be taken into custody on mere suspicion of terrorist plotting by the military with their right to habeus corpus suspended.

    already there is outcry about the FBI literally generating their own terrorist plots to entrap people who were speaking out against america.

    martin king, john kennedy and i'm sure a few others said that if you silence non-violent dissent, violent insurrection becomes inevitable. many people are concerned that this law will be used against more than armed and violent terrorists but against the sorts of people populating the occupations.

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    are you aware that these devices you are advocating for kill 100 civilians for every combatant?

    some precision guidance they have.

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by WhistleBlower View Post
    i would agree wholeheartedly with you about the battlefield scenario, mr. v, but the concern that activists have is that american citizens can be taken into custody on mere suspicion of terrorist plotting by the military with their right to habeus corpus suspended.

    already there is outcry about the FBI literally generating their own terrorist plots to entrap people who were speaking out against america.

    martin king, john kennedy and i'm sure a few others said that if you silence non-violent dissent, violent insurrection becomes inevitable. many people are concerned that this law will be used against more than armed and violent terrorists but against the sorts of people populating the occupations.
    Activist tend to exaggerate things on a scale that make telemarketers look honest and politicians deacons of truth.
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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by WhistleBlower View Post
    are you aware that these devices you are advocating for kill 100 civilians for every combatant?

    some precision guidance they have.
    First, what a bull**** number, where'd you get from? /Boggle

    Secondly, precision means we can hit the building we want to with ONE bomb rather then carpet bomb the entire town.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    some do, true, but you dodge the issue with your ad hominem fallacy.

    the fbi is already being accused of entrapping people and there is a nationwide outcry about the militarization of municipal police departments and the excessive force being used against non-violent acts of civil disobedience.

    the war on terrorism, like any other war, only profits the manufacturers of the weapons and the people who finance them. i'm not willing to sacrifice my liberty on the altar of raytheon's bottom line.

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    the numbers are appalling. the targeting systems aren't anywhere near what faux news would like you to believe. i'll go see what turns out, but the drones aren't killing many combatants and a lot of kids are dying.

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    the first number was sort of pulled out of the air based on a report i saw in citizen's for legitimate government newsletter which was claiming that most of the people who were being called combatants were not. i've scolded the editor, lori price in the past for biased reporting and editorializing in news stories.

    here's a report that's a bit more conservative, but the numbers are still bad.

    Drone War Exposed – the complete picture of CIA strikes in Pakistan: TBIJ

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