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Thread: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    News from The Associated Press There you go, I can agree with this. You take up arms with the enemy, you can die with them like the scum you are.
    I prefer that if the government is going to kill our own citizens, that it first perhaps make its case to the courts and PROVE the guilt of the individual in question.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    If you are actively trying to do harm to Americans, our troops or our interest, you deserve to be shot and killed. You really think if an American is firing on a group of Marines, or even American citizens the right thing to do is to worry about his rights? That makes no sense. You protect the innocent before you protect the guilty.
    Yet guilt is established in a court of law, not outside of it. Now if some person was actively shooting at the Marines; ok the Marines can respond in kind. But that's a far cry from dropping a bomb on someone.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Whether one is contributing to what reasonably can be described as military operations, battlefield activity, etc. is the dividing line. In other words, if someone properly meets the definition of a civilian, that person is not a legitimate military objective.

    McVeigh carried out an act of terrorism but was not involved with a military group (regular or irregular) that was waging combat against the U.S. Even if he had fled the U.S., the proper course of action would have been to seek his extradition. In contrast, the American-born Yemeni sheikh was engaged in command-and-control operations for Al Qaeda in Yemen, a number of which were directed against U.S. interests and allies, and was a legitimate military objective.
    I still don't think the line is all that clear. The only real substantive difference between McVeigh and Aulaqi in my mind, is that one happened to work for a terrorist network, while the other just happened to work alone (lone wolf style terrorist). I wonder if McVeigh had been part of a right-wing militia, if your evaluation would be any different.

    I mean, even the Hutaree when they were planning attacks on local cops were afforded criminal rights when they were captured/arrested. I tend to agree with you that combatants lose their rights, but I still don't feel as if the separating line between criminal and combatant is really all that clear.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 12-01-11 at 06:25 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    News from The Associated Press There you go, I can agree with this. You take up arms with the enemy, you can die with them like the scum you are.
    And what is it that would stop the govt from saying you had done things you had not and summarily executing you?

    If the government was trustable, it'd be different. But, as it is, it's made up of human beings.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Huh uh. How you gonna arrest a guy in the middle of a battlefield firing at US Soldiers. "Sorry Billy, your Dad died trying to arrest a man because we couldn't kill him, it would violate his rights."
    Get over it, you take up arms against this country, guess what, you lose your rights. That's how it works bub.
    al Qaeda fight on the battlefield?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    If you are actively trying to do harm to Americans, our troops or our interest, you deserve to be shot and killed. You really think if an American is firing on a group of Marines, or even American citizens the right thing to do is to worry about his rights? That makes no sense. You protect the innocent before you protect the guilty.
    That's not really the issue, imho. The issue is whether we're willing to give the govt the ability to execute citizens w/o a trial.

    I guess it boils down to how much you trust the government.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    That's not really the issue, imho. The issue is whether we're willing to give the govt the ability to execute citizens w/o a trial.

    I guess it boils down to how much you trust the government.
    I think that this is a fair assessment. And how much does one trust the government? Me? Not very much at all. Government was never meant to be trusted. People of small government mindset tend to also hold that value. So is it worth expanding their power such that they can seemingly execute our own people without trial, without presenting proof, and at seemingly their discretion? No, not at all. People may want to say traitor this or treason that; but that needs to be proven in a court of law first. Without oversight, the system goes down the tubes.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    That's not really the issue, imho. The issue is whether we're willing to give the govt the ability to execute citizens w/o a trial.

    I guess it boils down to how much you trust the government.
    If one trusts the government, then he should trust used car dealers too.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    If one trusts the government, then he should trust used car dealers too.
    Shady drug dealers are more trustworthy than the government. heheheh
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #30
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    Re: Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US

    Sooner of later the word "terrorist" will most likely be used to describe anyone who questions the governing class. It's such a vague term, and to use it so loosely can only set a negative precedent.

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