• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bradley Manning lawyer: White House review found 'leak' did no real damage

TheDemSocialist said:
I dont see how exposing war crimes and acts of murder is a crime?
Click to expand...

You also think Socialism is a great way of life, so it's not a wonder you don't comprehend how treason is a crime either.

Manning wasn't exposing "war criminals", he was giving sensitive/classified information to a foreign entity to harm his country. The law says, he can be shot for that, and should have been YEARS ago. Sadly, this did not happen.

IF his goals were the noble effort folks... like you and a few others here claim his were, he would have taken the data, contacted a major news organization to assist him in handing the information over to the proper authorities (while ensuring the news organization got the scoop on the story), that's how it works. That's a whistle blower. Manning is anything BUT a whistle blower, and should be treated as such.
 
MrVicchio said:
A foreigner whose stated goal was to harm the USA. Holy ****, defining TREASON! Damn you make it too easy.
Click to expand...

ok, now you have presented something of which i was unaware

please show us the cite which proves wiki-leaks/assange's stated goal was to harm the USA
 
MrVicchio said:
You also think Socialism is a great way of life,
Click to expand...
Ouch burn!
You got me!!!
How does socialism have anything to do with this?

so it's not a wonder you don't comprehend how treason is a crime either.
Click to expand...
Being a socialist=Not understand what treason is?
Your knowledge never seems to fail you!


Manning wasn't exposing "war criminals", he was giving sensitive/classified information to a foreign entity to harm his country.
Click to expand...
Ignoring torture?
Blatantly killing innocent civilians?
Those are not war crimes?
And how did this harm the country?
Did the Pentagon papers harm the country?
I mean the white house seems to agree that these didnt do any harm to the country..

The law says, he can be shot for that, and should have been YEARS ago. Sadly, this did not happen.
Click to expand...
Go ahead do "justice"!
Why wasnt Daniel Ellsberg shot?


IF his goals were the noble effort folks... like you and a few others here claim his were, he would have taken the data, contacted a major news organization to assist him in handing the information over to the proper authorities (while ensuring the news organization got the scoop on the story), that's how it works. That's a whistle blower. Manning is anything BUT a whistle blower, and should be treated as such.
Click to expand...
So for it to be "noble" you have to go to a national corporate ran "news" entity?
 
MrVicchio said:
A foreigner whose stated goal was to harm the USA. Holy ****, defining TREASON! Damn you make it too easy.
Click to expand...

Yea can we see a source which cites that Assange's goal was to "harm the USA"?
 
Yes, better to get distracted with that side argument rather than deal with the fact that just because you liked what he exposed and think he's some hero doesn't change the fact he didn't follow the law with regards to how to go about whistleblowing.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I dont see how exposing war crimes and acts of murder is a crime?
Click to expand...

They are not, and that is not what Manning is charged with. From wiki:

The charges can be broken down as follows:

  • UCMJ 104 (Aiding the enemy): 1 count. This charge carries a potential death penalty.

  • UCMJ 92 (Failure to obey a lawful order or regulation): 9 counts. Mostly related to computers.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]
    • Army Regulation 25-2, para. 4-6(k): Forbids transferring classified info to non-secure systems
    • Army Regulation 25-2, para. 4-5(a)(3): Modifying or installing unauthorized software to a system, using it for 'unintended' purposes.
    • Army Regulation 25-2, para. 4-5(a)(4): Circumventing security mechanisms
    • Army Regulation 380-5: Improper storage of Classified Information

Total number of counts: 34
Click to expand...
 
justabubba said:
ok, now you have presented something of which i was unaware

please show us the cite which proves wiki-leaks/assange's stated goal was to harm the USA
Click to expand...

Sure, that's EASY.

In 2006, Mr. Assange wrote a pair of essays, "State and Terrorist Conspiracies" and "Conspiracy as Governance." He sees the U.S. as an authoritarian conspiracy. "To radically shift regime behavior we must think clearly and boldly for if we have learned anything, it is that regimes do not want to be changed," he writes. "Conspiracies take information about the world in which they operate," he writes, and "pass it around the conspirators and then act on the result."

His central plan is that leaks will restrict the flow of information among officials—"conspirators" in his view—making government less effective. Or, as Mr. Assange puts it, "We can marginalize a conspiracy's ability to act by decreasing total conspiratorial power until it is no longer able to understand, and hence respond effectively to its environment. . . . An authoritarian conspiracy that cannot think efficiently cannot act to preserve itself."
Click to expand...
Crovitz: Julian Assange, Information Anarchist - WSJ.com

He believes the US Government is bad, and wants to force it to change to his ideal view, through harming the USA until it "sees the light" and becomes a government he supports.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Giving it to a Norwegian that runs a "exposing gov secrets site"?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that likely wasn't the best way. As noted, there is a legal procedure to go through. And bulk records likely include things that really shouldn't be made public for valid reasons. I'm not against exposing criminal activity, or for someone taking a stand. Just do so in the open and through proper rocedures where possible. Even well meaning actions often come with consequences.
 
justabubba said:
then what you are showing us is the opposite. that assange/wiki-leaks is taking actions to the benefit of the USA and its citizens
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that he was acting against the United States of America's government, which is what the laws regarding treason is refernecing. If you're deranged enough in the head to think that say, blowing up a federal buliding, is "benefiting" the USA by forcing its government to change....that's still treason. Simply because you have the crazy notion in your head that taking down the U.S. Government is going to help people doesn't change the fact that you're committing treason.
 
justabubba said:
interesting perspective
what was the proper and specific method for someone in the military to blow the whistle about committed atrocities and violations of international conduct
Click to expand...

Releasing several thousand pages of other classified information isn't it.
 
Redress said:
Jesus christ. It's the military, there are procedures for how to wipe your ass(see note) for god's sake. There are procedures for everything, including specific situations like this.

Note: military procedure for wiping ass.

1) take one square of military issue toilet paper.

2) fold the paper in half

3) turn paper 90 degrees, fold the paper in half again.

4) at the corner with the most fold, tear the corner out.

5) place finger through corner

6) wipe

7) remove paper from finger, removing feces from finger as you go
Click to expand...

You left out step #8: Use torn off corner to clean fecal matter from under fingernail.
 
rathi said:
The guy who shot at the white house was almost certainly guilty as is Manning. The fact that nobody was hurt as a result of their actions is simply a mitigating circumstance to be used in determining their sentencing.
Click to expand...

The only thing that should be used in determining sentence is intent.
 
apdst said:
You left out step #8: Use torn off corner to clean fecal matter from under fingernail.
Click to expand...

Sigh, I have been out of the service for too long, I forgot.

Did you all have the John Wayne toilet paper too that we got in the navy?
 
Redress said:
Sigh, I have been out of the service for too long, I forgot.

Did you all have the John Wayne toilet paper too that we got in the navy?
Click to expand...

We even had the non-bleached ass wipe, that was environmentally friendly. :rofl

images
 
Last edited:
justabubba said:
then what you are showing us is the opposite. that assange/wiki-leaks is taking actions to the benefit of the USA and its citizens
Click to expand...
In your twisted world I suppose that makes sense. So, a NON-American, who posts sensitive/classified information, that hurts US Interests does it to "make America" better, that's A-OK with you? If someone were to say... pull a Clancy and fly a 747 into the Capitol Building during a joint session... you know, to help America, you'd bee all for that?

I swear, some of you boggle my mind with your twisted reality. "Well, he wants to HELP America, of course doing so causes great harm, his GOALS are laudable!" I guess I know how Lenin, Mao and others got where they were, enough people decided evil was worth it if the "goal" was good.
 
Redress said:
Sigh, I have been out of the service for too long, I forgot.

Did you all have the John Wayne toilet paper too that we got in the navy?
Click to expand...

See, if you worked in the Ops Department, we got Charmin. Just sayin.
 
MrVicchio said:
See, if you worked in the Ops Department, we got Charmin. Just sayin.
Click to expand...

I never used that MRE **** paper. I brought my own. I got bitched at a few times for having bleached toilet paper by the civilian tree huggers, but I just told them if it was so terrible, they should go pick it up and do something with it.
 
apdst said:
I never used that MRE **** paper. I brought my own. I got bitched at a few times for having bleached toilet paper by the civilian tree huggers, but I just told them if it was so terrible, they should go pick it up and do something with it.
Click to expand...

Tree huggers hated the real navy. What do you do with trash? You throw it overboard. Now there where rules about it, but the truth is, we were just careful and did not get caught pouring the old solvents over the side.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Thoughts?
Comments?
Response? [/FONT][/COLOR]
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if no real damage has been done.He is still a traitor and as such he should be punished as such.
 
Redress said:
Tree huggers hated the real navy. What do you do with trash? You throw it overboard. Now there where rules about it, but the truth is, we were just careful and did not get caught pouring the old solvents over the side.
Click to expand...

OMG!!! We spilled a teacup of diesel on the ground one time. We reported the spill, just like we were told. Then, we had to dig a 6' x 6' hole, put the dirt in sealed bags for disposal and then, replace the dirty dirt with clean dirt.

A few weeks later, we spilled about 10 gallons...and didn't report a damn thing! :rofl

BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to tell us which war crimes Mannings treasonist actions exposed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom