Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 61 to 70 of 70

Thread: Iran students storm UK Embassy

  1. #61
    Skeptical Optimist
    Rhapsody1447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Seen
    09-20-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,510

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    And this is complete ungrounded speculation that flies in the face of reality, considering that Ahmedinejad and Khamenei are interested in closer dealings with the west and not isolating themselves.
    It's not completely ungrounded to believe that the Iranian government may have played a role. Speculation? Of course, barring hard evidence you can only speculate. David Cameron is speculating they did.

    British Prime Minister David Cameron had earlier promised "very tough action" following the violent scenes when around 200 protesters rampaged for hours through Britain's two diplomatic compounds in Tehran.

    They tore down the Union Jack, ripped up pictures of Queen Elizabeth II, trashed embassy offices, set documents alight, and briefly blocked the movements of six diplomats.

    Iranian police, who initially appeared to do little to prevent the violence, eventually forced protesters to leave after firing tear gas and clashing with them, Hague said.

    "The idea that the Iranian authorities could not have protected our embassy or that this assault could have taken place without some degree of regime consent is fanciful," he said
    So is British Foreign Secretary William Hague.

    British Foreign Secretary William Hague accused the Iranian government of tacit support for Tuesday's attack by hundreds of demonstrators, though he stopped short of cutting diplomatic ties altogether.

    "If any country makes it impossible for us to operate on their soil they cannot expect to have a functioning embassy here," Hague said in a speech to parliament.

    To cheers from lawmakers, Hague said he had ordered all Iranian embassy staff to leave Britain within 48 hours and closed the mission in London immediately.
    And the chairman of the Iranian parliamentary national security and foreign policy commission didn't exactly ease concerns.

    But prominent Iranian MP Aladdin Brujerdi, the chairman of the Iranian parliamentary national security and foreign policy commission, on Wednesday said "Britain is responsible for all the repercussions of its action".

    "We recommend other European nations not follow the policies of Britain and the United States," Brujerdi said.

    Iran's foreign ministry had earlier expressed "regret" over the incident, and a senior policeman was quoted as saying that some protesters had been arrested.

    But parliamentary speaker Ali Larijani defended the protesters, saying they had been angered by the British government and "decades of domineering moves by the British in Iran".
    Britain expels Iranian diplomats after embassy attack - Yahoo! News

    This could be a significant turning point in Iranian relations with the West. It seems almost all of the EU is considering pulling their embassies along with the UK ordering Iran to evacuate it's embassy in the Britain.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

  2. #62
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,881

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianna
    Why indeed it is, since comments prefaced with statements like, "Sometimes I think..." and "My opinion..." by definition means that I am speculating.
    I was just emphasizing it, and also emphasizing how delusional your speculation is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447
    It's not completely ungrounded to believe that the Iranian government may have played a role.
    No **** sherlock, see my own post in this thread. What is completely delusional is saying it was "orchestrated by the Iranian government" and that they are "trying to isolate themselves" or whatever Dianna said as if the entire government is behind an action that flies directly in the face of what their leaders are attempting to accomplish.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  3. #63
    Skeptical Optimist
    Rhapsody1447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Seen
    09-20-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,510

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No **** sherlock, see my own post in this thread. What is completely delusional is saying it was "orchestrated by the Iranian government" and that they are "trying to isolate themselves" or whatever Dianna said as if the entire government is behind an action that flies directly in the face of what their leaders are attempting to accomplish.
    Woah there, Red. I didn't attack you in anyway, I just posted speculation from British leaders and the Iranian response. I went back and red your older comment and I'm sorry for inferring you meant any Iranian government involvement at all.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

  4. #64
    Student Blackstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    05-21-17 @ 08:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    218

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Countries are responsible for the safety and security of foreign embassies and emissaries within their borders. This is a sacrosanct principal of diplomacy. The government of Iran is at best negligent and, at worst, culpable in the attack on the British embassy in Tehran. They should have stopped it, arrested those responsible for it, issued an immediate public apology to Great Britain and taken measures to ensure that future incidents against the British or other foreign compounds would not be tolerated. To do anything less is to condone what happened, insult Great Britain and put all other nations on alert that diplomatic relations with Iran is an unstable if not impossible proposition. Iran deserves international condemnation for the whole incident.

  5. #65
    Skeptical Optimist
    Rhapsody1447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Seen
    09-20-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,510

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
    Countries are responsible for the safety and security of foreign embassies and emissaries within their borders. This is a sacrosanct principal of diplomacy. The government of Iran is at best negligent and, at worst, culpable in the attack on the British embassy in Tehran. They should have stopped it, arrested those responsible for it, issued an immediate public apology to Great Britain and taken measures to ensure that future incidents against the British or other foreign compounds would not be tolerated. To do anything less is to condone what happened, insult Great Britain and put all other nations on alert that diplomatic relations with Iran is an unstable if not impossible proposition. Iran deserves international condemnation for the whole incident.
    Fully agreed. It looks like that is exactly what happened.

    Britain expels Iranian diplomats after embassy attack - Yahoo! News
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

  6. #66
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,590
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I was just emphasizing it, and also emphasizing how delusional your speculation is.
    No more delusional than your own speculation:

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There really isn't any indication that this was government sanctioned, and in fact I think that this hurts the overall Iranian government's interests... Though I think it's pretty obvious that this was not organized by anyone in the government, particularly because of the police attempts to break it up.

    In any event it is obvious that Ahmedinejad opposes such an action, as does Ayatollah Khamenei.
    It's not obvious at all. You think it is obvious. That's speculating. And given the facts I previously noted in my post, facts which you edited out, I daresay your speculation is more delusional than mine.

    No **** sherlock, see my own post in this thread. What is completely delusional is saying it was "orchestrated by the Iranian government" and that they are "trying to isolate themselves" or whatever Dianna said as if the entire government is behind an action that flies directly in the face of what their leaders are attempting to accomplish.
    I never said anything of the sort. I said, "I think it's possible..." And you don't know what Iranian leaders are attempting to accomplish. You think you know, but you don't. You have simply formed your opinion just as I have formed my opinion... and neither of us have the slightest clue of what is really going on behind the closed doors of Iranian government.

    I also think that you rely on insulting terms such as "delusional" to avoid addressing facts. Tip: Condescention does not improve your conversational skills and "talking at" people rather than "talking with" them does not enhance your fellow posters' mood.

  7. #67
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,881

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dianna
    I was just emphasizing it, and also emphasizing how delusional your speculation is.
    No more delusional than your own speculation:
    It is more delusional because my speculation was based on reality, whereas yours was not. For example, you think that "the Iranian government" is a monolithic entity and/or that they would orchestrate such an event even though it blatantly has gone directly against what their goals have been.

    The reality of the matter is that the Iranian government and Iranian politics are much too complicated to boil down into a single homogeneous position. There are hardliners in parliament that support this action, just like there are hardliners in congress who support crazy crap. It is not unrealistic to believe that such a hardliner could have been involved, but their view certainly is in the minority. Your post just showed that you don't know anything about the current political situation in Iran, and instead preferred to water it down to complete irrelevance (stupidity).
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 12-02-11 at 10:33 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  8. #68
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,590
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It is more delusional because my speculation was based on reality, whereas yours was not. For example, you think that "the Iranian government" is a monolithic entity and/or that they would orchestrate such an event even though it blatantly has gone directly against what their goals have been.

    The reality of the matter is that the Iranian government and Iranian politics are much too complicated to boil down into a single homogeneous position. There are hardliners in parliament that support this action, just like there are hardliners in congress who support crazy crap. It is not unrealistic to believe that such a hardliner could have been involved, but their view certainly is in the minority.
    You don't know what the Iranian government's goals are. You think you know, but you don't know, because you cannot possibly know. By your own definition, that is delusional.

  9. #69
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,881

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    You don't know what the Iranian government's goals are.
    1. "The reality of the matter is that the Iranian government and Iranian politics are much too complicated to boil down into a single homogeneous position."
    2. Foreign Minister Salehi has said the following in a discussion with Turkish Foreign Minister Davutoglu: “I hope that both we and Britain will consider this incident as if it did not happen, and that our relations will continue normally from now on.”
    3. Based on WikiLeaks cables we know that Ahmedinejad is interested in compromise with the West on a variety of issues (he is in line with Khamenei on this).
    4. Based on the positions that both Ahmedinejad and Khamenei have taken in the past decade we know that they are interested in opening up their economy to further privatization and foreign investment.

    My speculation is based on these facts, along with a longstanding, thorough understanding of Iranian politics based on my work on this blog. So again, yes, I posted speculation, but mine was based on the facts and yours was not.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 12-02-11 at 10:47 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  10. #70
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,590
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Iran students storm UK Embassy

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    1. "The reality of the matter is that the Iranian government and Iranian politics are much too complicated to boil down into a single homogeneous position."
    2. Foreign Minister Salehi has said the following in a discussion with Turkish Foreign Minister Davutoglu: “I hope that both we and Britain will consider this incident as if it did not happen, and that our relations will continue normally from now on.”
    3. Based on WikiLeaks cables we know that Ahmedinejad is interested in compromise with the West on a variety of issues (he is in line with Khamenei on this).
    4. Based on the positions that both Ahmedinejad and Khamenei have taken in the past decade we know that they are interested in opening up their economy to further privatization and foreign investment.

    My speculation is based on these facts, along with a longstanding, thorough understanding of Iranian politics based on my work on this blog. So again, yes, I posted speculation, but mine was based on the facts and yours was not.
    My speculation is based upon facts as well, facts you have omitted from your list. However, I see where this is going and I'm no longer willing to play. You can have the last word. You know you want it... and I think you'll insist upon it. So bye-bye.

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •