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Thread: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    By this definition,

    austerity is the only way to go. Over-spending is what got them where they are.
    Not completely... there are factors where over-spending IS an issue, and we'd have to examine each area, sorry, but I don't plan to write a thesis on all the various factors.

    To put this into a simple perspective, let's say we're in a society of 4 people. 1 of us has a spending problem and can't make ends meet, 2 of us are responsible with our money, and 1 of us is living like a king on borrowed money, and not only is this person borrowing money, they are borrowing that money for gambling purposes. On top of that, this person is fixing their books so it appears as though they are in much better shape then they are.

    Now, when the debt collectors come in asking for this ***t-ton of money that they owe. This person comes out and declares, well, since the other 3 helped lend money on expectation of a return, that this person has too much debt and if he goes bankrupt then EVERYONE loses money so they must foot the bill for this persons gambling debts and loans or else the entire "economy" would fail. So, being nice folk, the other 3 throw money in a bailout to 4, who then INSTANTLY takes the money and goes on a gambling binge and now comes back saying that he needs MORE MONEY (to fund further gambling)...

    A better way to describe this setup is what is commonly called a "ponzi scheme"... and you, me, and most of the world are the victims in this scheme, and those individuals represented as number 4 in our little hypothetical society, they are the perpetrators of this scam, and well... the politicians meant to represent the people are signing us on as responsible for the "debts" of the one person who should be thrown in jail... actually, this scam is SO BIG that I would argue for capital punishment.

    Edit : Your definition of austerity is actually reasonable... but the reality is that not only are services being cut, the cost for the remaining services are going up through taxes.

    The ONLY outcome if this continues is that EVERYONE will become debt slaves.
    Last edited by BmanMcfly; 11-29-11 at 06:25 PM.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post

    Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of

    Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’


    Is this political suicide or just a pragmatic response? Can the US afford to get involved in the Eurozone disaster with a 100% Debt/GDP Ratio and annual deficits of 11% of GDP? Is Obama willing the save the Euro project he holds so dear at the expense of America's fiscal health? I'm looking forward to hear more details about this as it just broke but the headlines are already scaring me enough. I can't imagine Obama is willing to entangle himself in this mess so close to an election.
    I don't think Obama plans on getting seriously involved. That may be the obviously smart thing to do, or it may come back to bite us when our own problems climax, I have no idea.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    We already are helping them. We are providing record levels of currency swaps to the ECB. The fact that you would want to involve our budgetary process in the EU mess when we are running record spending levels, deficits, and unemployment rates is what is sad. And LOL, you seriously think the Chinese people would bailout the American taxpayer? They only buy our debt because we buy their goods. If you think China is even capable of, let alone willing to bail out the United States then you have lost it, mon.

    EDIT: NY Fed: ECB Draws $552M Currency Swaps In 11/23 Week - WSJ.com

    and if you America can sustain itself without the Euro and become an isolationist state then you have also "lost it man".

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    and if you America can sustain itself without the Euro and become an isolationist state then you have also "lost it man".
    You're confusing so many things I don't even know where to start.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    You're confusing so many things I don't even know where to start.

    no confusing anything buddy just responding to the people posting that America should pull all finances out of Europe.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Got to love this " let the euro sort out its own mess" attidue people have. Lets hope the Chinese people are in a more giving mood when the US economy needs to be bailed out.
    We been pumping foreign aid into Europe for 70 years. We still give foreign aid to Canada and Japan, so I don't want to hear crap about we, "don't help them". We've been helping them and they still haven't learned to help themselves.

    There's no point in bailing them out, when we all know that they're just going to go back to the same policies that created the mess, causing another crash down the road.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We been pumping foreign aid into Europe for 70 years. We still give foreign aid to Canada and Japan, so I don't want to hear crap about we, "don't help them". We've been helping them and they still haven't learned to help themselves.

    There's no point in bailing them out, when we all know that they're just going to go back to the same policies that created the mess, causing another crash down the road.

    same policies that created this mess, you mean Capatalism then? As for America your in the same situation has Europe you are in massive debt and your GDP is dropping, you have borrowed billions from the Chinese and recently nearly defaulted yourself. This mess was not just created by Europe so you can get off your high horse right now!

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Not completely... there are factors where over-spending IS an issue, and we'd have to examine each area, sorry, but I don't plan to write a thesis on all the various factors.

    To put this into a simple perspective, let's say we're in a society of 4 people. 1 of us has a spending problem and can't make ends meet, 2 of us are responsible with our money, and 1 of us is living like a king on borrowed money, and not only is this person borrowing money, they are borrowing that money for gambling purposes. On top of that, this person is fixing their books so it appears as though they are in much better shape then they are.

    Now, when the debt collectors come in asking for this ***t-ton of money that they owe. This person comes out and declares, well, since the other 3 helped lend money on expectation of a return, that this person has too much debt and if he goes bankrupt then EVERYONE loses money so they must foot the bill for this persons gambling debts and loans or else the entire "economy" would fail. So, being nice folk, the other 3 throw money in a bailout to 4, who then INSTANTLY takes the money and goes on a gambling binge and now comes back saying that he needs MORE MONEY (to fund further gambling)...

    A better way to describe this setup is what is commonly called a "ponzi scheme"... and you, me, and most of the world are the victims in this scheme, and those individuals represented as number 4 in our little hypothetical society, they are the perpetrators of this scam, and well... the politicians meant to represent the people are signing us on as responsible for the "debts" of the one person who should be thrown in jail... actually, this scam is SO BIG that I would argue for capital punishment.

    Edit : Your definition of austerity is actually reasonable... but the reality is that not only are services being cut, the cost for the remaining services are going up through taxes.

    The ONLY outcome if this continues is that EVERYONE will become debt slaves.
    We're not alking about a society of people. We're talking single government entities, that have a spending problem and are living like kings on borrowed money. They're going to have cut spending and shrink their deficits, for anything to change; bailout, or not bailout.

    Whether austerity--or lack of--is half the problem, three-quarters of the problem, or all of the problem, the fact remains that none of these failing economie have passed any auterity measures to try and start curbing the overhead that is causing the problem.

    Despite what some folks think, a government has to be run just like a business and while a government doesn't have to turn a profit and can run with a certain amount of loss, that loss can't be equal to more than the revenue it generates, if it is, we have the senario we see happening in Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    same policies that created this mess, you mean Capatalism then? As for America your in the same situation has Europe you are in massive debt and your GDP is dropping, you have borrowed billions from the Chinese and recently nearly defaulted yourself. This mess was not just created by Europe so you can get off your high horse right now!
    No, actually, I was thinking more of Liberal/Progressive/Socialist policies that alot of European governments have in place.

    There's no way you're going to be able to convince anyone that Capitalism caused these governments to over spend. No way!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Got to love this " let the euro sort out its own mess" attidue people have. Lets hope the Chinese people are in a more giving mood when the US economy needs to be bailed out.
    I wish they would have taken that position long ago.

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