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Thread: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, that's a welcome step that will reduce the risk of a liquidity crunch and ensuing breakdown of market function. This development does not spare EU countries facing debt-related pressures from the need to pursue credible fiscal consolidation.
    There is no arguing that it was a welcome step. Critics argue that despite solving the current liquidity problem it doesn't do anything to address underlying solvency issues. In the short term it definitely helped cash-strapped institutions but the longer term consequences could be troublesome. While I agree some liquidity measures needed to be taken (Fed has already been providing swaps at a record rates, today was just a coordinated move to increase the volume and make them cheaper), the question is how well that extra liquidity will convert to consumer credit and aggregate demand.

    In conclusion, I have said I support Fed assistance to the EU, I just strongly oppose involving the budgetary process.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    There is no arguing that it was a welcome step. Critics argue that despite solving the current liquidity problem it doesn't do anything to address underlying solvency issues. In the short term it definitely helped cash-strapped institutions but the longer term consequences could be troublesome. While I agree some liquidity measures needed to be taken (Fed has already been providing swaps at a record rates, today was just a coordinated move to increase the volume and make them cheaper), the question is how well that extra liquidity will convert to consumer credit and aggregate demand.

    In conclusion, I have said I support Fed assistance to the EU, I just strongly oppose involving the budgetary process.
    Well the critics are morons on so many levels and their views are most likely based on partisan political ideology than reality.. wonder if it is the same morons.. err critics that claimed that the EU had to be bailed out with 6 trillion Euros... any ways... Banks and the financial industry run on liquidity, and when liquidity is drained from the market then yes banks get into solvency problems because they can not meet their day to day liquidity needs. So what the fed and the rest of the industrialised worlds banks did today might be a temporary solution some what, but it had the desired effect and hopefully the market will start to question validity of the "critics" who are ruling the world markets now.

    The only downside might be that the need for the ECB to actually print money will be dampened a tad, which will play into the hands of the Germans who dont want the ECB to print money.... but then again it might give the Eurozone the time politically to get their ducks in place so to say.
    Last edited by PeteEU; 11-30-11 at 02:27 PM.
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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    The Fed's latest actions in cooperating with foreign central banks to undertake liquidity swaps of dollars for foreign currencies is another reason why Congress needs enhanced power to oversee and audit the Fed. Under current law Congress cannot examine these types of agreements. Those who would argue that auditing the Fed or these agreements with central banks harms the Fed's independence should reevaluate the Fed's supposed independence when the Fed bails out Europe so soon after President Obama promised US assistance in resolving the Euro crisis.

    Rather than calming markets, these arrangements should indicate just how frightened governments around the world are about the European financial crisis. Central banks are grasping at straws, hoping that flooding the world with money created out of thin air will somehow resolve a crisis caused by uncontrolled government spending and irresponsible debt issuance. Congress should not permit this type of open-ended commitment on the part of the Fed, a commitment which could easily run into the trillions of dollars. These dollar swaps are purely inflationary and will harm American consumers as much as any form of quantitative easing.

    The Fed is behaving much as it did during the 2008 financial crisis, only this time instead of bailing out politically well-connected too-big-to-fail firms it is bailing out profligate government spending. Citizens the world over deserve better than this. They deserve sound money that cannot be manipulated and created out of thin air by central planners who promise printed prosperity. Fiat money caused this European crisis and the financial crisis before it. More fiat money is not the cure. The global fiat currency system has proven itself a failure, we need real monetary reform. We need sound money.
    Ron Paul's thought on the Fed action today. He makes a great point about Obama promising assistance and then a few days later the Fed acts. There is no doubt that was a coordinated effort.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    These dollar swaps are purely inflationary and will harm American consumers as much as any form of quantitative easing.

    But for some, it's all the fault of the "corporations".

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well the critics are morons on so many levels and their views are most likely based on partisan political ideology than reality.. wonder if it is the same morons.. err critics that claimed that the EU had to be bailed out with 6 trillion Euros... any ways... Banks and the financial industry run on liquidity, and when liquidity is drained from the market then yes banks get into solvency problems because they can not meet their day to day liquidity needs. So what the fed and the rest of the industrialised worlds banks did today might be a temporary solution some what, but it had the desired effect and hopefully the market will start to question validity of the "critics" who are ruling the world markets now.

    The only downside might be that the need for the ECB to actually print money will be dampened a tad, which will play into the hands of the Germans who dont want the ECB to print money.... but then again it might give the Eurozone the time politically to get their ducks in place so to say.
    All they did was put a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

    Until the Liberal polices of spending more than they take in, comes to an end, the problem will never go away.

    There are only two options: 1) Let those countries go belly up and be forced to change their life styles, or 2) We keep bailing them out, until we run out of money and everybody goes belly up and have to change their life styles.

    Face it, Liberalism is a complete failure. Probably a bigger failure than communism, since communism didn't call for a worldwide multi-trillion dollar bailout to keep it alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    All they did was put a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

    Until the Liberal polices of spending more than they take in, comes to an end, the problem will never go away.

    There are only two options: 1) Let those countries go belly up and be forced to change their life styles, or 2) We keep bailing them out, until we run out of money and everybody goes belly up and have to change their life styles.

    Face it, Liberalism is a complete failure. Probably a bigger failure than communism, since communism didn't call for a worldwide multi-trillion dollar bailout to keep it alive.
    If liberalism now includes saving the ass of those who made poor investments I agree.

    Sarcasm aside, your point is correct but not complete.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We're not alking about a society of people. We're talking single government entities, that have a spending problem and are living like kings on borrowed money. They're going to have cut spending and shrink their deficits, for anything to change; bailout, or not bailout.
    The problem with that is we do live in a society of people.... and whether that society is 8 people or 8 billion the principles are the same, just more complex.

    Whether austerity--or lack of--is half the problem, three-quarters of the problem, or all of the problem, the fact remains that none of these failing economie have passed any auterity measures to try and start curbing the overhead that is causing the problem.
    Good... because the second they DO accept the type of proposed austerity, is like the second you hand over your wallet and your house keys to a person robbing you. We need to follow the example of Iceland, who told these bankers to go **** themselves, and they came back a few days later and said "oh, our bad you only owe a fraction of what we first claimed." At which point they should have gone one step further and thrown everyone involved behind bars for even ATTEMPTING that type of scam.


    Despite what some folks think, a government has to be run just like a business and while a government doesn't have to turn a profit and can run with a certain amount of loss, that loss can't be equal to more than the revenue it generates, if it is, we have the senario we see happening in Europe.
    And in the US. But it's not much different than an individual with a credit rating... no matter how GOOD YOUR CREDIT IS, there's NO REASON why they should be allowed to get into a situation where the INTEREST on the debt (not the principal) IS MORE THAN THE INCOME!!!

    But, there's always a new contrived crisis, and now it's reaching a boiling point where every week or two the Euro is on the verge of collapse, and then when the Euro gets saved, then it's another region on the verge... and it's all to save those that are deemed "too big to fail", leaving the rest of us as "too small to save".

    But seriously, the problem is not even so much one of excessive debts, the problem is excessive THEFTS!!!

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    The problem with that is we do live in a society of people.... and whether that society is 8 people or 8 billion the principles are the same, just more complex.
    But, we still have a government entity that is screwing the pooch.



    Good... because the second they DO accept the type of proposed austerity, is like the second you hand over your wallet and your house keys to a person robbing you.
    How do you figger that? Do you even understand what austerity is?

    We need to follow the example of Iceland, who told these bankers to go **** themselves, and they came back a few days later and said "oh, our bad you only owe a fraction of what we first claimed." At which point they should have gone one step further and thrown everyone involved behind bars for even ATTEMPTING that type of scam.
    What we need to do, is stop believing in the fantasy that banks, or any other private industry caused all these problems.




    And in the US. But it's not much different than an individual with a credit rating... no matter how GOOD YOUR CREDIT IS, there's NO REASON why they should be allowed to get into a situation where the INTEREST on the debt (not the principal) IS MORE THAN THE INCOME!!!
    The principal is the debt. I'm starting to see why you don't understand what I'm telling you.

    But, there's always a new contrived crisis, and now it's reaching a boiling point where every week or two the Euro is on the verge of collapse, and then when the Euro gets saved, then it's another region on the verge... and it's all to save those that are deemed "too big to fail", leaving the rest of us as "too small to save".

    But seriously, the problem is not even so much one of excessive debts, the problem is excessive THEFTS!!!
    All the more reason why we shouldn't give them a ****ing nickel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, we still have a government entity that is screwing the pooch.
    No, the government is doing a VERY GOOD JOB at protecting those large-scale white collar criminals, and ensuring that the corporate interests remain protected.

    How do you figger that? Do you even understand what austerity is?
    There are two definitions of austerity... there's the actual definition as you presented and to an extent I agree with you. THEN there's the austerity as it's being proposed, which is much closer to robbing from the middle to spread amongst the poor. It's just being CALLED austerity.

    What we need to do, is stop believing in the fantasy that banks, or any other private industry caused all these problems.
    I'm sorry, but the REASON why we are in such a huge mess is BECAUSE of the central banks and because of "derivative" investments.

    The world-wide debt load because of this is in the range of 1500+ TRILLION dollars (600+ trillion dollars to the US alone). So, really, the government debt problem is peanuts compared to the elephant in the room.

    The principal is the debt. I'm starting to see why you don't understand what I'm telling you.
    Yes, and we can no longer afford even THE INTEREST on that principal. Whatever you don't pay in interest gets added to the principal.

    All the more reason why we shouldn't give them a ****ing nickel.
    This goes contrary to your first point. Giving into austerity is necessary BECAUSE you are giving them, not just a nickel, but in the order of hundreds or thousands of BILLIONS of dollars worth of nickels.

    The debt is mostly NOT LEGITIMATELY OWED by the people... it's private gambling debts that are in the process of being socialized.... and the more we accept the financial terrorism going on, the more we are taking on fraudulent debts that we SHOULD NOT OWE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    Do yourself a favor, read up on IMF policies... they have a process through which they financially take over nations. Like was done to Argentina some time ago. The final stage is to create a situation SO BAD that the people riot, thus lowering the confidence so everything can be purchased for pennies on the dollar... THEN after a few months they give back a FRACTION of what the people had before, the people are happy because they had their "victory" which was better than the catastrophe, but a fraction of what they had prior.

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    Re: Obama: Solving Euro Crisis of ‘Huge Importance’

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    No, the government is doing a VERY GOOD JOB at protecting those large-scale white collar criminals, and ensuring that the corporate interests remain protected.
    The only criminals--if you must call them that--are the ones in the government that created the mess.



    There are two definitions of austerity... there's the actual definition as you presented and to an extent I agree with you. THEN there's the austerity as it's being proposed, which is much closer to robbing from the middle to spread amongst the poor. It's just being CALLED austerity.
    If you agree with me, why do you keep saying thta austerity won't work?



    I'm sorry, but the REASON why we are in such a huge mess is BECAUSE of the central banks and because of "derivative" investments.
    You can't be serious! That housing bubble the government created doesn't have anything to do with it? What about the billions that the Eruos owe those fat cat pensions, that they can't afford, because there is more money going out and less money coming in, with the gap getting wider and wider every year? Ya think maybe a 30 hour work week might have been a bad idea??

    The world-wide debt load because of this is in the range of 1500+ TRILLION dollars (600+ trillion dollars to the US alone). So, really, the government debt problem is peanuts compared to the elephant in the room.
    All the more reason to spend less and run the household on what you've actaully have coming in, or--I know this is going to sound really freaky-deaky to some folks--figure out a way to make more money, without raising taxes.



    Yes, and we can no longer afford even THE INTEREST on that principal. Whatever you don't pay in interest gets added to the principal.
    Actaully, it doesn't, but whatever



    This goes contrary to your first point. Giving into austerity is necessary BECAUSE you are giving them, not just a nickel, but in the order of hundreds or thousands of BILLIONS of dollars worth of nickels.
    Uh, right, but I don't see how it's contrary to anything I've said.

    The debt is mostly NOT LEGITIMATELY OWED by the people... it's private gambling debts that are in the process of being socialized.... and the more we accept the financial terrorism going on, the more we are taking on fraudulent debts that we SHOULD NOT OWE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
    Another great case for drastic austerity measures.

    Do yourself a favor, read up on IMF policies... they have a process through which they financially take over nations. Like was done to Argentina some time ago. The final stage is to create a situation SO BAD that the people riot, thus lowering the confidence so everything can be purchased for pennies on the dollar... THEN after a few months they give back a FRACTION of what the people had before, the people are happy because they had their "victory" which was better than the catastrophe, but a fraction of what they had prior.
    The IMF doesn't create the situation; politicians with all kinds of government handouts create the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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