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Thread: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http://www

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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Remember guys it also runs on gas.....



    Soo going by your knowledge sense the car also takes gas couldnt it be logical that i can blame the problem on gas?
    Correct, but car-sized battery banks contain a ridiculous amount of stored energy. Making sure this energy isn't suddenly released in an accident is a primary design issue. It COULD be a result of short circuits. (As much as I hate to say it).
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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    No, lets stop gov't subsidizing them! How does that sound?

    Major fail. Pintos and Toyotas were not subsidized by the taxpayer.

    HUGE Difference.

    When I am forced to give my taxpayer dollars to someone who buys one of these pieces of **** and find out they have a major safety flaw, I have a right to complain and complain loudly. Did you ever stop to think that if it was such good technology and if it was such a good ****ing car, that you wouldn't need your gov't to step in and pay for part of the damn thing? Good ideas are self sufficient.....i.e....the internal combustion vehicle. (and don't bring up bailouts of the auto industry, that was caused by unions and slow sales because of the economy, not because the engine driven car is a bad idea)
    Your concerns about safety are somewhat overblown, considering the fact that if gasoline were discovered today they'd NEVER let us carry many gallons of it in a vehicle travelling 70+ miles an hour.
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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    But they were not subsidized. I understand CAFE standards. The manufacturers will have to figure out how to reach them.
    Dude ... THEY WERE SUBSIDIZED!! That is what a tax rebate is. It makes hybrids less expensive for the consumer and thus provides a direct benefit to the manufacturer.

    Under Bush's policy purchasers of hybrid vehicles were entitled to a tax credit of up to $3,400. That's not a deduction, but a credit, which is basically the government cutting me a check of $3,400 for buying a Toyota.
    Last edited by AdamT; 11-27-11 at 02:01 PM.

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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Bear in mind though that most "hydrogen infrastructure" plans are based on using natural gas as a source of hydrogen. Trafing one fossil fuel for another.

    Hydrogen isn't a "fuel", it is much more akin to a battery in that it either takes energy to produce or is "extracted" from an existing fuel source. There are no hydrogen mines or wells.

    Electricity, on the other hand, can be generated in any number of ways and an electric vehicle doesn't care where the electrons come from. Allowing new sources to be used without requiring our vehicle fleets to be changed to accommodate it.
    Yes producing hydrogen using natural gas isnt all that economical. However producing it using electrolysis is a much better way of producing hydrogen.

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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Yes producing hydrogen using natural gas isnt all that economical. However producing it using electrolysis is a much better way of producing hydrogen.
    I'm actually pretty sure it takes more energy to produce hydrogen from water through electrolysis than from NG.

    And, iirc, electrolysis takes more energy to produce hydrogen than the hydrogen it produces carries.

    That said, ANY power generation method that eliminates acceleration/deceleration cycles results in a net efficiency benefit. Even with generation losses, a gallon of fuel burned in a constant rpm generator is more efficient than the same fuel burned in a conventional car.
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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I'm actually pretty sure it takes more energy to produce hydrogen from water through electrolysis than from NG.

    And, iirc, electrolysis takes more energy to produce hydrogen than the hydrogen it produces carries.

    That said, ANY power generation method that eliminates acceleration/deceleration cycles results in a net efficiency benefit. Even with generation losses, a gallon of fuel burned in a constant rpm generator is more efficient than the same fuel burned in a conventional car.
    It is less. And many hydrogen powered cars dont burn hydrogen which is indeed inefficient. They use basically the reverse of electrolysis to create electricity in order to power an electric motor.

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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    what happened in the 1970s when, nearly a century into gasoline-powered automobile technology, Pintos began exploding during and after accidents?

    was it :

    a. a design flaw in that particular model
    or
    b. an indictment of all internal combustion technology, with the only logical response being the abandonment of gasoline powered vehicles

    ?
    C. It was a loss for Ford and not the American taxpayer.

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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    It is less. And many hydrogen powered cars dont burn hydrogen which is indeed inefficient. They use basically the reverse of electrolysis to create electricity in order to power an electric motor.
    I understand that fuel cells are used primarily to provide electricity. And that electrolysis is becoming more efficient. My primary concern was with the NG "hydrogen infrastructure" bait and switch that would have simply switched fossil fuels while keeping the same fossil fuel companies at the top of the transportation profit pyramid. With a new taxpayer funded delivery infrastructure that woupd be rendered useless when natural gas supplies started to dwindle.

    As its entirely possible that these technologies are advancing along a track that allow them to compete with batteries for energy storage, do you have links or searchable terms on this? It has been a few years since I was keeping track. So you could very well be correct. If hydrogen electrolysis and fuel cell environmental impacts offset the considerable issues new battery technologies have in the areas of carbon footprints/toxicity of manufacture and disposal/recycling.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Toyota (and Ford, and Honda, and GM) hybrids were subsidized. Sometimes the auto industry needs a kick in the ass to move in the right direction (see seatbelts, air bags, catalytic converters).
    Damnit Adam, quit moving the goalposts.

    First I said that this is a huge problem. Now, I didn't specify why other than it being electric. That was my bad. So after being asked why and having people point out other cars with recalls, I pointed out that the taxpayers were subsidizing this car, neither of the recalled cars. Then the goalposts are moved again and you say that Ford and Toyota were receiving gov't subsidies for their hybrids. Ok....stop. Apples to apples people. One car with a safety issue and two other cars with safety issues. Difference? Ford and Toyota got screwed, not the American taxpayer. As Orielly says, stop the spin.

    Nobody ever said that no other hybrid receives subsidies from the gov't. The title and subject of this thread is the safety of a vehicle that the gov't is pushing by subsidizing it heavily. It's not about other hybrid cars. When Obama pushes the Volt himself, and yet this car has some serious safety issues that need to be dealt with, that's really bad. The gov't needs to stay the hell out of the auto industry.

    President Obama Takes Chevy Volt Electric Car for a Test Drive | The Rundown News Blog | PBS NewsHour | PBS

    You say only 2 out of 5000 have caught fire. That's not very good, out of those 5000, how many have even been in accidents? 10? 20? Lets look at a much more heavily produced car, the Corolla. As of 2007, 37,000,000 Corollas have been built. If you work out the math, if 2 of every 5000 built caught on fire, that would be 14,800 Corollas bursting into flames. I bet you wouldn't be standing idly by if you'd heard that 14,000 of one model of car had caught on fire. You'd be livid. You'd be even more upset if you found out the gov't had been subsidizing the Corolla and pushing it with your taxpayer dollars.

    Well, that's how I feel about the Volt.

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    Re: New Post-Accident Chevy Volt Engine Fires Prompt Investigation Read more: http:/

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I understand that fuel cells are used primarily to provide electricity. And that electrolysis is becoming more efficient. My primary concern was with the NG "hydrogen infrastructure" bait and switch that would have simply switched fossil fuels while keeping the same fossil fuel companies at the top of the transportation profit pyramid. With a new taxpayer funded delivery infrastructure that woupd be rendered useless when natural gas supplies started to dwindle.

    As its entirely possible that these technologies are advancing along a track that allow them to compete with batteries for energy storage, do you have links or searchable terms on this? It has been a few years since I was keeping track. So you could very well be correct. If hydrogen electrolysis and fuel cell environmental impacts offset the considerable issues new battery technologies have in the areas of carbon footprints/toxicity of manufacture and disposal/recycling.
    Is this what you meant by energy storage?

    Researchers make advances in rechargeable solid hydrogen fuel storage tanks

    Other links...

    Pee power could fuel hydrogen cars | Environment | guardian.co.uk

    Discovery of Cheap Catalyst Advances Case for Hydrogen Fuel | CleanTechnica

    And dont know if you already know this or not but Honda has been selling hydrogen powered cars in California since 2008 and they have a small hydrogen infrastructure already.

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