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CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

Conservative said:
Naw, these results are what the liberals were looking for. The more they can keep dependent the more power they get


25 million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011(bls.gov)154.1 X 16.2% Top Picks (Most Requested Statistics) : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

14.8 million unemployed PLUS Discouraged workers Top Picks (Most Requested Statistics) : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

2.2 million fewer jobs(bls.gov) Notice: Data not available: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics ln : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

4.4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years(U.S. Treasury Site) Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual Government - Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

1/21/2009 6,307,084,792,840.85 4,317,968,751,468.94 10,625,053,544,309.70

11/22/2011 10,326,530,350,389.40 4,721,461,154,539.92 15,047,991,504,929.30

Down grade of U.S. Credit rating(S&P)

Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.53 The United States Misery Index By Year

38-44% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings(Gallup)
Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval

US Poverty Hits Record High: 1 in 6 Americans Living Below Poverty Line | Economy Watch
Report: Poverty hits record level - MJ Lee - POLITICO.com

“Fast and Furious”, “Wide Receiver”

Solyndra, Fisker, and Crony Capitalism Jobs Panel Member Whose Solar Firm Won Loan Guarantees Raises 'Conflict Of Interest' Concerns | Fox News

Solyndra solar power company shuts down 15 months after Obama visit
Solyndra solar power company shuts down 15 months after Obama visit

The Tonopah Solar company in Harry Reid's Nevada is getting a $737 million loan from Obama's DOE.
The project will produce a 110 megawatt power system and employ 45 permanent workers.
That's costing us just $16 million per job.

One of the investment partners in this endeavor is Pacific Corporate Group (PCG).
The PCG executive director is Ron Pelosi who is the brother of Nancy's husband.
But there is nothing wrong here, is there?

U.S. Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News

U.S. Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News

Stimulus failure

Review & Outlook:Why the Stimulus Failed - WSJ.com
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I've said it for years: the poor man's party has nothing to gain from their being fewer poor people.
 
apdst said:
I've said it for years: the poor man's party has nothing to gain from their being fewer poor people.
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You not only said it for years,you've said it twice...in this thread.:mrgreen:
 
In the end, conservatives on this board have long recognized that CBO scoring has benefited the group, or person that gives it the data to score. This is a major reason why over the years their projections have nearly always ended in a re estimation of their original score, because they are usually not allowed to independently research their facts, but can only work off of what is provided to them as parameters.


For example, take Obama's Health Care bill....

There are a number of problems associated with CBO’s estimates. Some have to do with the games Congress itself plays with numbers. In the case of highly complex programs like health care, a myriad of variables can throw estimates off. In fact, the government’s track record for estimating health-care program costs is poor.

Congress usually asks CBO to judge a bill’s budget impact over 10 years. In the case of health-care reform, Congress is seeking to fudge the budget impact of the program by starting the program in 2013. But the CBO’s 10-year estimates start with 2010, so that they actually include costs for seven program years.

Read more: Congressional Budget Office consistently wrong on health-care estimates | The Daily Caller
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So that CBO is now coming back after the fact and saying 'ooops, sorry, we got it wrong' is really no surprise at all.


j-mac
 
MrVicchio said:
Since it was Gvoernment edicts like "You WILL loan to people that cannot afford houses" and "Freddie and Fannie will buy your toxic" mortgages that caused the housing bubble to forment and explode, it appears once again, you have failed in your quest to exound the virtues of Central Planning, Government Control and Communism.
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The last word of your post turned a good post into a bad post.
 
j-mac said:
Here we go with the "MOST" agree meme....This is an elementary tactic that the only objective to use it is to stifle debate, and not have to debate differing points of view. It is pure Allenski tactic and should be dismissed at best, and taken as a concession of loss of argument in your part in the debate. Nice try though.


j-mac
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Really? Is that what you would say if most doctors diagnosed you with cancer? Or most scientists concluded that a food aditive was carcinogenic? Or if the vast majority of climatologists had concluded that anthropogenic global warming was a real problem?

Pointing out that most experts say X, Y, or Z is not intended to stifle debate. It is simply a fact relevant to the debate. It only offends you because you generally find yourself inexpertly arguing points that most experts do not support.
 
The long-run negative effect has been well-established on account of the United States' bias for accommodation. In theory, stimulus should be short-run during the contraction and then completely mopped up once the economy recovers, leaving no lasting debt. However, that's not the way things have worked in the U.S. Many temporary spending increases/tax cuts are renewed time and again rather than replaced with temporary spending cuts/tax hikes until the cyclical debt is eliminated. The result is a pile-up of debt that becomes structural in nature and that should not have occurred had a neutral approach been applied. That debt has a long-term negative impact and the shallow recovery underway is, in part, a function of the nation's magnitude of indebtedness (household, corporate, and government).

Finally, even as it has not yet gained much attention outside the international financial community, there has been a worrisome structural problem with the U.S. economy in recent years, especially the most recent decade: for every dollar of GDP growth, nondomestic financial debt has increased by $2 or more. That's not a sustainable path. The economy cannot grow at robust rates in the long-term if Americans (households, corporations, government) continue to take on more debt than the economy generates income.
 
CP did the usual start with a selective aprt of the story to misrepresent something. Simon and Finbread did a nice job of pointing that out. 1Perry and just a couple of others made effort to move the debate. But too many hung like death to the more misrepresentative side of the story.

Interesting, but not unexpected. For now, I look forward to more from those who are actually reading all of it.
 
MrVicchio said:
No, you won't.


FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

Only blind hacks still believe FDR helped anyone during the GD, he was instrumental in making it drag out, and hurt so much. Had it NOT been for WWII, who knows when the pain would have ended.
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Bolded statement is wrong.

The problem with the conservative argument and their use of the UCLA study to prove their point is that Cole and Ohanian point to a single policy as the cause for much of the stifled economic recovery, one that was only in existence for two years, the National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA).

<snip>

So basically, what the 2004 UCLA study concluded was that inflated prices and wages were the cause of the slowed recovery, and the NIRA which FDR signed into law was the cause of that inflation, resulting in a 60% weaker recovery. However, because NIRA was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court two years after it was enacted, a repeat of this particular economic policy mistake by the Obama administration would be impossible. While NIRA may have been somewhat of a blunder in terms of New Deal solutions, it was but one of many policies instituted by FDR, and although Cole and Ohanian present a good case, the general consensus remains that New Deal policies by and large were successful.
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Did FDR’s New Deal policies really prolong the Great Depression? Will Obama’s policies have a similar effect? « Rebel

The UCLA study represents a point of view, but it does NOT prove that FDR's policies in the great depression extended it.

By the way, if you believe that WWII ended the great depression, that's fine. It happens to be the biggest example of Keynesian economics in practice. It was MASSIVE GOVT. SPENDING, mostly borrowed, in make work projects to build guns, planes, uniforms, boats, tanks, bombs, paint, radio equipment, etc.; all of which was totally unnecessary for a functioning economy. Then it did not turn over in the economy, we just took it out and shot it off or it got destroyed by the enemy.

If you believe WWII ended the great depression, then you are arguing that the stimulus should have been much larger and come much earlier.

Explain how this worked in the economy to a significantly different extent than the WPA and the CCC did when building roads and bridges, which actually got used by the citizens to improve commerce by making it easier to transport goods.
 
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It wasn't war spending that ended it. It was the positive belief in the country after the war that ended it.
 
1Perry said:
It wasn't war spending that ended it. It was the positive belief in the country after the war that ended it.
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Right, that and fairy dust.
 
AdamT said:
Right, that and fairy dust.
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the_kiss.jpg



You are free to believe that the psychology of people have little impact but I can show where it made more of an impact than $800 billion in stimulus.
 
Dickieboy said:
.......and FDR was no longer the president!
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And the real answer: it was the massive stimulus from the war effort, coupled with the fact that we were the only remaining industrial power who's factories weren't bombed to oblivion.
 
AdamT said:
And the real answer: it was the massive stimulus from the war effort, coupled with the fact that we were the only remaining industrial power who's factories weren't bombed to oblivion.
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That was the good ole days when we had industry on shore besides banks that we could stimulate.:(
 
treedancer said:
That was the good ole days when we had industry on shore besides banks that we could stimulate.:(
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The truth is that we manufacture more today than we ever have. Unfortunately the manufacturing industry is far less labor intensive now due to computers and robotic assembly.
 
AdamT said:
The truth is that we manufacture more today than we ever have. Unfortunately the manufacturing industry is far less labor intensive now due to computers and robotic assembly.
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We should double up on the stimulus and put it into rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. Starting with the pothole-laden interstates.

This was the link I was reading when I posted that about the banks.GRR..:2mad:

< Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks Undisclosed $13B>

< The Federal Reserve and the big banks fought for more than two years to keep details of the largest bailout in U.S. history a secret. Now, the rest of the world can see what it was missing. >

Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks Undisclosed $13B - Bloomberg
 
treedancer said:
We should double up on the stimulus and put it into rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. Starting with the pothole-laden interstates.

This was the link I was reading when I posted that about the banks.GRR..:2mad:

< Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks Undisclosed $13B>

< The Federal Reserve and the big banks fought for more than two years to keep details of the largest bailout in U.S. history a secret. Now, the rest of the world can see what it was missing. >

Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks Undisclosed $13B - Bloomberg
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Just goes to show how ineffecient the govt. is with taxpayer money yet that doesn't stop liberals from demanding more. Any idea what was to fund infrastructure projects including the highways?
 
1Perry said:
the_kiss.jpg


You are free to believe that the psychology of people have little impact but I can show where it made more of an impact than $800 billion in stimulus.
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Yes, show us how the psychology of the people had more impact than $800 billion in stimulus. I want to see this one.
 
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