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Thread: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I would not disagree that they can fully control this. They are adding to it though.
    Markets dictate the price of commodities; even those whose production is primarily state owned (see OPEC).
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Unfortunately, our country’s energy policy plays a huge part on the cost of oil.
    Not really, no. The single greatest price determinant for oil is emerging market demand.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Using the armed forces as analogy to private business is a poor example unless you are saying that you think that business should be controlled by government as far as their budgets are concerned. Other than that, please tell us what profits the military contributes to our GDP.
    You're misisng the point copletely. It has nothing to do with control. A business with poor workers is a poor business. Sloppy, work equals a poor product. I'm sure you understand that. So, the worker is at elast of equal, if not greater importance to the health of the business as the owner.

    Also, if workers make wages that are too low, fewer will have money to spend. While this may give the company temporary profits, in the long run, if such is wide spread, the company will lose as there won't be any buyers. For companies here, the best profit making may be to pay peanuts overseas, and hope someone else pays you here. No way you can appease them enough to counter act that.

    But, the point is, a healthy business needs good, satified, hard working emplyees. And they need people making money in order to buy things to be successfull. I suggest this means we shoudl be concerned about the worker, and business is short sighted not to.


    That is one long run on sentence to simply say that this is your opinion.

    j-mac
    Run on doesn't mean long. I think there are four sentences there. However, dealing with absolutes is susally a bad thing. Still, I ahve given reasoning and rationale, which puts me a step ahead in this discussion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Do you see the problem with making claims on an unquantified basis? If you can provide a valid description to how the actions of the Obama administration have increased short term input costs for business, then please go right ahead. You will have been the first to do so.

    Wait a minute....You asked me this...

    "Of course they are. But can you show me that these various costs are increasing to the point where input costs (overall) are outpacing sales? If not, then you are essentially blowing hot air."

    I answered with the informed opinion of not one but two people that should be able to offer an informed opinion, that you in turn totally ignore, and tell me then to rattle off a litany of stats, and numbers that I have made clear I am over my head in that arena.

    I asked you to address what these two individuals said in relation to your request, and you ignore it. Why not show me where Mr. Becker, and Mr. Posner have it wrong?

    If you can.


    j-mac
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're misisng the point copletely. It has nothing to do with control. A business with poor workers is a poor business. Sloppy, work equals a poor product. I'm sure you understand that. So, the worker is at elast of equal, if not greater importance to the health of the business as the owner.
    So now you are going to delve into the chicken or the egg theory eh? Good workers are essential to the health of a successful business, yes. But, without a place for these workers to put their skills to use, and earn a paycheck, then you have nothing.

    Also, if workers make wages that are too low, fewer will have money to spend. While this may give the company temporary profits, in the long run, if such is wide spread, the company will lose as there won't be any buyers. For companies here, the best profit making may be to pay peanuts overseas, and hope someone else pays you here. No way you can appease them enough to counter act that.
    You forget that employment is a mutual agreement to trade work skill for pay. If that pay is too low, you don't have to work there.

    But, the point is, a healthy business needs good, satified, hard working emplyees. And they need people making money in order to buy things to be successfull. I suggest this means we shoudl be concerned about the worker, and business is short sighted not to.
    You are falsely making the worker the reason for employment, rather than the market need. We don't live in that type of society.

    Run on doesn't mean long. I think there are four sentences there. However, dealing with absolutes is susally a bad thing. Still, I ahve given reasoning and rationale, which puts me a step ahead in this discussion.
    Glad you think so.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Not really, no. The single greatest price determinant for oil is emerging market demand.
    While I don't disagree that the increased energy consumptions of China and India have impacted our cost for oil, but please don't discount our country's energy decisions as a factor of the cost of oil/oil based products for Americans. It has a direct impact.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I answered with the informed opinion of not one but two people that should be able to offer an informed opinion, that you in turn totally ignore, and tell me then to rattle off a litany of stats, and numbers that I have made clear I am over my head in that arena.
    You responded with a post that was loaded with political rhetoric and absolutely no quantification or analysis. So you actually provided nothing that is relevant to my request.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    While I don't disagree that the increased energy consumptions of China and India have impacted our cost for oil, but please don't discount our country's energy decisions as a factor of the cost of oil/oil based products for Americans. It has a direct impact.
    A minor factor.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Price to earnings ratio? Never ran a business did you? My statement is accurate and based upon actual P&L's. Ever look at one? Expenses a dollar hit to profit and revenue is a percentage less than 100% to profit. That is the way it works, sorry.
    Are you financially illiterate? Companies are more profitable than they have been during any period of time in the past 25 years.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So now you are going to delve into the chicken or the egg theory eh? Good workers are essential to the health of a successful business, yes. But, without a place for these workers to put their skills to use, and earn a paycheck, then you have nothing.
    Nope. I have said repeatedly that both are needed. However, policies ahve largely favored only one side of the equation. This is where our debate lies. You support having owners as a protectred class, but want workers to just deal with it. I suggest we consider the worker as well.

    You forget that employment is a mutual agreement to trade work skill for pay. If that pay is too low, you don't have to work there.
    Another one of those good in theory things. Fact is during different times in history, one or the other has held the advantage, making there being nothing mutual about it. When owners hold the advantage, such as they do currently, workers have to accept less or not work. This is far more common than the few times when workers ahve held the advantage. But, in the long wrun, this hurts business overall, as there are less dollars to spend, and thus less need for a business to grow.

    Too many seem to miss the connection between dollars available to spend and business growth. It means much more than taxes.

    You are falsely making the worker the reason for employment, rather than the market need. We don't live in that type of society.
    Now that's a wild leap with no connection to anything I've said. In fact, people haivng money to spend helps create the market need. What I need means nothing if I can't afford it. So, if I am not making enough to ahve extra to spend, I will only buy to my needs, food, shelter. I'll like skip insurance or any kind, and I certainly am less likely to buy anything don't need (credit not withstanding, something that has worked well all around). So, no, I'm speaking specifically about the need for demand in the market.


    Glad you KNOW so.


    j-mac
    Yep. I do.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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