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Thread: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

  1. #331
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    I notice a bit of backpedaling in the bolded part. Its not the libs that you have to worry about, its those in the Buffet class that would have a problem with the 9% tax on ALL INCOME.
    But how can that be? I thought that the Buffet's of the world were saying tax us more? Oh wait, I see. Easy to say, but when it comes to putting it into practice they would say "Whoa, I didn't mean me".... See that is the problem with socialism of any stripe, it has no problem with attacking others wealth, but socialism is for the people not the socialist eh....Got it

    And yes we would collect taxes from the unemployed/underemployed/the the seniors getting five hundred a month SS...thata show the freeloaders we mean business. Thata probably cure out deficit in about....two hundred years.
    Fair is fair. You can't constantly bellow the "fair share" mantra when you have nearly half the country paying nothing. Income is income. But see you don't really want to be fair about it do you, no, you want to attack those that have more than you do, which to me is pure Bull.

    And two hundred years? No. We could solve this in less than 10. Check this out...

    Press Releases - Press Office - Congressman Connie Mack

    You had better do some research besides what you hear on talk radio on this point. Itís a long study and I donít have time but its not quite as you seem to think.
    No, it is exactly what I am saying....

    The theory of tax incidence has a large number of practical results, although economists dispute the magnitude and significance of these results:

    * Because businesses are more sensitive to wages than employees, payroll taxes, employer mandates, and other taxes collected from the employer end up being borne by the employee. The tax is passed onto the employee in the form of lower wages.
    * If the government requires employers to provide employees with health care, some of the burden will fall on the employee as the employer will pass it on in the form of lower wages. Some of the burden will be borne by employer (and ultimately the customer in form of higher prices or lower quality) since both the supply of and demand for labor are highly inelastic and have few perfect substitutes. Employers need employees largely to the extent they can substitute employees for machines, and employees need employers largely to the extent they can become self-employed entrepreneurs. An uneducated population is therefore more susceptible to bearing the burden because they are more easily replaced by machines able to do unskilled work, and because they have less knowledge of how to make money on their own.
    * Taxes on easily substitutable goods, such as oranges and tangerines, may be borne mostly by the producer because the demand curve for easily substitutable goods is quite elastic.
    * Similarly, taxes on a business that can easily be relocated are likely be borne almost entirely by the residents of the taxing jurisdiction and not the owners of the business.
    * The burden of tariffs (import taxes) on imported vehicles might fall largely on the producers of the cars because the demand curve for foreign cars might be elastic if car consumers may substitute a domestic car purchase for a foreign car purchase.
    * If consumers drive the same number of miles regardless of gas prices, then a tax on gasoline will be paid for by consumers and not oil companies (this is assuming that the price elasticity of supply of oil is high, which is incorrect. In this case both the price elasticity of demand and supply are very low). Who actually bears the economic burden of the tax is not affected by whether government collects the tax at the pump or directly from oil companies.


    Tax incidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Now I know this is the point at which liberals try to twist, and deflect, but let's be honest here, confiscatory taxation not only raises prices to the consumer, making it tougher to make ends meet, but can easily drive production, and jobs out of country. So tell me, why do you want to ship our jobs overseas?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  2. #332
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Aren't we still in a downward spiral? Slower, but downward.
    IMO we are in a bit of a holding pattern but we are going to fall again before ever getting back to normal. We have to. It's inevitable. Our gains of the last three years are NOT fundemental. They were created by printing money. Has that done a thing for unemployment? No.

  3. #333
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    I don't see job growth under a republican led administration that seems very focused on cutting spending by eliminating jobs, two things are needed to fuel small business growth hiring the return or start up large corporations and the american consumer has to have the money to support US manufacturing and to purchase the services and products that small businesses make available
    Where do you suppose that money is going to come from that will go to the American consumers? Why do you think Obama is proposing a tax holiday for SS and Medicare? Tax cuts put money into the hands ot he people which is why Reagan and Bush were successful but cutting SS and Medicare funding is the wrong place to start thus the Federal Expenses have to be cut as those are funded by FIT.

  4. #334
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Sure, including ALL. No more protected class including welfare.
    Business is more of a protected class than poor folk. And you applaud their being a protected class.


    0...It's passed to the consumer anyway.


    j-mac
    This is one of those things that sounds true but likley isn't. The rate change would not amount to enough to really justify passing it on. And the likely don't. But it helps in making an excuse to exclude them for any responsibility to pay for the benefits they use. A protected class if you will.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #335
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Do you honestly believe that the money is there to repay those SS IOU's from the SS trust fund? where does the money come from that pays the interest on those securities?
    Yes. In order for the money "not to be there", the U.S. would have to default on its debt obligations. The Treasury is responsible for paying federal liabilities.

    None the less, all trust funds/hedge funds/money market funds rely on U.S. Treasuries as a means of storing liquidity. You have been unable to put forth a relevant argument (let alone valid) as to why large pools of liquidity should not have U.S. sovereign debt exposure.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #336
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I wonder if there was no problem with SS, and there is this magic trust fund out there invested in securities like you say, then why did Obama threaten to not send out SS payments over the summer if repubs didn't back his debt increase?

    j-mac
    By forcing a hard "ceiling", the U.S. would not have been able to issue the debt required to meet about $1.5 trillion of its obligations. In order to prevent a massive run on U.S. treasury securities, the federal government would be required to pay all liabilities prior to paying the salaries/costs necessary to send out various transfer payments.

    Maybe you should spend more time leaning about global finance prior to making ill-informed statements in these discussions.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #337
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Yes. In order for the money "not to be there", the U.S. would have to default on its debt obligations. The Treasury is responsible for paying federal liabilities.

    None the less, all trust funds/hedge funds/money market funds rely on U.S. Treasuries as a means of storing liquidity. You have been unable to put forth a relevant argument (let alone valid) as to why large pools of liquidity should not have U.S. sovereign debt exposure.
    Actually the facts trump your intellectual rants in that the SS funds have been raided and replaced with IOU's. Eventually those IOU's have to be funded and that funding is either going to come from printing money or borrowing the money. IOU's are called assets because they are backed by the U.S. Govt. but those IOU's aren't cash. That large pool of liquidity is going to have to be funded by the sale of assets, printing money, or borrowing it.

    Social Security IOU’s

    Social Security IOUs stashed away - Washington Times

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That large pool of liquidity is going to have to be funded by the sale of assets, printing money, or borrowing it.
    You left out raising taxes like Ron and Tip agreed to in 1983.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You left out raising taxes like Ron and Tip agreed to in 1983.
    Ron and Tip also agreed to spending cuts that never happened but what Ron and Tip agreed to do was cut income taxes and raise use taxes.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Ron and Tip also agreed to spending cuts that never happened but what Ron and Tip agreed to do was cut income taxes and raise use taxes.
    The point being, tax increases are a viable means of reform.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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