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Thread: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    I thought in this country it was ok to let businesses fail. I didn't like when Bush gave money to the auto industry, and I didn't like it when Obama gave them more. Furthermore, the financial institutions should have failed. Other banks would have bought their valuable assets to offset the loss of bad investments. Instead we gave them money to get rid of their bad investments, and they kept the good ones. We didn't let the free market work, and we are now paying the price for it.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I thought in this country it was ok to let businesses fail. I didn't like when Bush gave money to the auto industry, and I didn't like it when Obama gave them more. Furthermore, the financial institutions should have failed. Other banks would have bought their valuable assets to offset the loss of bad investments. Instead we gave them money to get rid of their bad investments, and they kept the good ones. We didn't let the free market work, and we are now paying the price for it.
    We let businesses fail, like MF Global just failed. What we cannot do is allow THE WHOLE SYSTEM to fail, or to let a failure in one sector, like housing, bring down a whole string of sectors, like morgage operations, banking, auto sector, and on, and on...

    See 1930's. That's bad.

    I don't see anyone who has proposed a comprehensive plan to deal with the situation we faced in 08-09, who describes all the major expected outcomes, and it happens without significant short term pain, and discusses the expected long term results also. Until someone does, you're all just bitchin.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    And still we have no alternate plan, and no facts to support why it would have worked better.

    I don't remember ANYONE saying if we did not do TARP the market would fall to 7000, please cite a source.
    I'll find the quotes for you later when I have some time. TARP initially failed. The markets took a small drop and then stabalized. They did not crash until AFTER the TARP vote.

    The rest of your arguement is nothing more than highly partisan drivel. All but the extremely partisan realize the problems were created by BOTH parties. I do enjoy debating this with those with an open mind and a understanding of the history of what caused this.

    I do not believe that describes your arguements. If you wish to provide a more sensible understanding of who all caused the problems I would be happy to present what I believe should have been done.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    This short sighted quote completely ignores what the alternative was, which was much worse than the negatives from the stimulus program. The alternative was a meltdown of the US economy.

    Printing large sums of money is always bad in the long run. There is no disputing that. Anyone who thinks different is a fool.

    In 2008-2009, the question is "what was the alternative", what was your "other plan".

    Here we have Greenspan's view at the time:

    Greenspan: ‘We’ve already seen the bottom’ - ABC News

    The economy could have COLLAPSED, like, that's REALLY BAD! But, the economy DID NOT COLLAPSE! TARP and the stimulus did that for us.

    In August, 2009, what had caused the 3.5 billion increase in the value of US corporations that Mr. Greenspan spoke of? It was the stimulus, it was passed in Feb. 09 by the dems, and in March 09 the stock market started back up. The stimulus did that, with TARP having laid the foundation with the security there would not be any large scale bank failures.

    So, I agree with the CBO there will be some long term negative results from the stimulus, however if that is the cost of PREVENTING ECONOMIC COLLAPSE of the US economy, it is a good trade-off, and your assertion that the stimulus was a bad thing is incorrect, because it lacks context and perspective.
    WRONG. What TARP and the "Stimulus" did was make Washington Elites look like they were doing something rather then letting the system clear out the trash. A hard sharp fall followed by a natural recovery would, long term be far better then the softened drop and long term harm caused. However, NOT acting was not politically... beneficial. Anyone that believes the system was "saved" by the Government is ignorant to reality.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    "Stimulus," my ass. Loan from the Federal Reserve is what "Stimulus" is. Why don't we say that. Why not state what we all know "that you cannot borrow your way out of debt." Why do the gov't people keep saying stimulus instead of "loan?" Is it that we don't want to remind people that we are printing more money? If you don't ask the right question, you will never get the right answer.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    We let businesses fail, like MF Global just failed. What we cannot do is allow THE WHOLE SYSTEM to fail, or to let a failure in one sector, like housing, bring down a whole string of sectors, like morgage operations, banking, auto sector, and on, and on...

    See 1930's. That's bad.
    The 1930's were bad. But let's bring it back to our current time frame, other than a time when the dollar was backed by gold. At the end of the 90's, the tech bubble popped, but we didn't run out there to save every small tech firm that was dying out. The weak died, the strong survived, and the parts of the weak that were good, went off to the ones who could pay for it. The same should have happened to the auto industry and the banking industry. Sure, there would be some turbulence for a few years while things shake out...but that has to be better than our current situation. A free market should be free of government intervention. Lately it seems like the government wants to be more in business than politics.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    The 1930's were bad. But let's bring it back to our current time frame, other than a time when the dollar was backed by gold. At the end of the 90's, the tech bubble popped, but we didn't run out there to save every small tech firm that was dying out. The weak died, the strong survived, and the parts of the weak that were good, went off to the ones who could pay for it. The same should have happened to the auto industry and the banking industry. Sure, there would be some turbulence for a few years while things shake out...but that has to be better than our current situation. A free market should be free of government intervention. Lately it seems like the government wants to be more in business than politics.
    Apples and oranges. If MyBlueState.com goes under it doesn't take the nation's entire financial structure down with it, which is exactly what would have happened if we let the big banks fail.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Apples and oranges. If MyBlueState.com goes under it doesn't take the nation's entire financial structure down with it, which is exactly what would have happened if we let the big banks fail.
    **** gets real bad for a bit, then rebounds as markets are wont to do. OR you can "Save" the system, making a much longer, worse recovery, but score political points from the chicken littles who want to be saved "hardship"
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    **** gets real bad for a bit
    ... is the understatement of the century.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    So their estimate is now that the stimulus created between 600,000 and 3.6 million jobs? That's a pretty good range.

    And of course stimulus hurts in the long run if you never pay pay it back. Is that supposed to be a revelation?
    ...OR...

    If you don't have a long-term economic growth plan. But hey, let's ignore the true purpose of the ARRA, shall we, which was to:

    1) slow the negative economic impact on the country.

    2) provide a short-term capital infusion to the States;

    3) put money back into the hands of qualified citizens and provide tax cuts to business to spur job growth.

    As I've said time and again, objectives #1 and #2 were met. It's option #3 that missed the mark, but it did so because most of the tax benefits weren't targetted enough toward the private sector. Based on these factors, I'm not surprise the CBO would readjust its estimates downward on the long-term cost effectiveness of the Stimulus. Nothing new or earth-shattering here, folks.

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