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Thread: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

  1. #261
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Now that the you're repeated the mindless statisitics, you follow with the personal attack. You're way too predictable my friend.

    And yes, you are on stuck.
    Right, anything that refutes your claims or asks the tough questions is a personal attack.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right, anything that refutes your claims or asks the tough questions is a personal attack.
    1) you have not refuted my claim.

    And

    2) It was the personal attack that was the personal attack, not the information you don't understand you presented. Like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by conservative
    Spoken like someone out of touch with reality.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 11-29-11 at 01:10 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As long as SS is mandatory then the money should go where it belongs, into a trust fund and not on budget. Doing that would assure proper funding.
    Hedge Funds, Trust Funds, and Money Market Funds all have strong ties to the U.S. Treasury market due to it being a virtually default free asset class and its sheer liquidity.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Hedge Funds, Trust Funds, and Money Market Funds all have strong ties to the U.S. Treasury market due to it being a virtually default free asset class and its sheer liquidity.
    SS was established to go into a separate account and not put on budget to be spent as desired by the Congress. The SS fund wasn't invested and lost, it was spent.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    SS was established to go into a separate account and not put on budget to be spent as desired by the Congress. The SS fund wasn't invested and lost, it was spent.
    Nope! The S.S. trust fund is composed of U.S. treasury securities because they earn interest and are about as risk free as you can get. When you put money into a depository account, do you honestly believe it just sits there?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Nope! The S.S. trust fund is composed of U.S. treasury securities because they earn interest and are about as risk free as you can get. When you put money into a depository account, do you honestly believe it just sits there?
    Do you honestly believe that the money is there to repay those SS IOU's from the SS trust fund? where does the money come from that pays the interest on those securities?

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Nope! The S.S. trust fund is composed of U.S. treasury securities because they earn interest and are about as risk free as you can get. When you put money into a depository account, do you honestly believe it just sits there?

    "Democrats have been insisting for decades that there’s really a Social Security trust fund, which provides the funding for Social Security payments. It’s supposed to be an insurance plan, remember. We paid into the program, the money was put aside, and then the money is paid out.

    Except no trust fund exists. The money went to funding the day-to-day operations of the federal government."

    Obama Admits: Social Security Trust Fund Doesn’t Exist | The American Pundit

    I wonder if there was no problem with SS, and there is this magic trust fund out there invested in securities like you say, then why did Obama threaten to not send out SS payments over the summer if repubs didn't back his debt increase?

    j-mac
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    No, you won't.

    FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

    Only blind hacks still believe FDR helped anyone during the GD, he was instrumental in making it drag out, and hurt so much. Had it NOT been for WWII, who knows when the pain would have ended.
    You cannot read the Cole and Ohanian study and conclude that FDR did not help anyone in the great depression. The study does not say that. The study only focused on ONE policy that was enacted in 1933, the National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA), out of the MANY acts that FDR put in place. The act allowed businesses to agree to set prices higher than normal if they paid wages higher than normal (declared unconstitutional in 1935).

    These are the New Deal programs:
    The New Deal had many programs and new agencies, most of which were universally known by their initials. They included the following. Most were abolished during World War II; others remain in operation today:

    Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC) a Hoover agency expanded under Jesse Holman Jones to make large loans to big business. Ended in 1954.
    Some WPA programs included adult education.
    Federal Emergency Relief Administration (FERA) a Hoover program to create unskilled jobs for relief; replaced by WPA in 1935.
    United States bank holiday, 1933: closed all banks until they became certified by federal reviewers
    Abandonment of gold standard, 1933: gold reserves no longer backed currency; still exists
    Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), 1933–1942: employed young men to perform unskilled work in rural areas; under United States Army supervision; separate program for Native Americans
    Homeowners Loan Corporation (HOLC) helped people keep their homes, the government bought properties from the bank allowing people to pay the government instead of the banks in installments they could afford, keeping people in their homes and banks afloat.
    Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), 1933: effort to modernize very poor region (most of Tennessee), centered on dams that generated electricity on the Tennessee River; still exists
    Agricultural Adjustment Act (AAA), 1933: raised farm prices by cutting total farm output of major crops and livestock; replaced by a new AAA because the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional.
    National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA), 1933: industries set up codes to reduce unfair competition, raise wages and prices; ended 1935. The US Supreme Court ruled the NIRA unconstitutional
    Public Works Administration (PWA), 1933: built large public works projects; used private contractors (did not directly hire unemployed). Ended 1938.
    Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) insures bank deposits and supervises state banks; still exists
    Glass–Steagall Act regulates investment banking; repealed 1999
    Securities Act of 1933, created the SEC, 1933: codified standards for sale and purchase of stock, required awareness of investments to be accurately disclosed; still exists
    FERA camp for unemployed black women, Atlanta, 1934
    Civil Works Administration (CWA), 1933–34: provided temporary jobs to millions of unemployed
    Indian Reorganization Act, 1934: moved away from assimilation; policy dropped
    Social Security Act (SSA), 1935: provided financial assistance to: elderly, handicapped, paid for by employee and employer payroll contributions; required 7 years contributions, so first payouts were in 1942; still exists
    Works Progress Administration (WPA), 1935: a national labor program for more than 2 million unemployed; created useful construction work for unskilled men; also sewing projects for women and arts projects for unemployed artists, musicians and writers; ended 1943.
    National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) / Wagner Act, 1935: set up National Labor Relations Board to supervise labor-management relations; In the 1930s, it strongly favored labor unions. Modified by the Taft-Hartley Act (1947); still exists
    Judicial Reorganization Bill, 1937: gave the President power to appoint a new Supreme Court judge for every judge 70 years or older; failed to pass Congress
    Federal Crop Insurance Corporation (FCIC), 1938: Insures crops and livestock against loss of production or revenue. Was restructured during the creation of the Risk Management Agency in 1996 but continues to exist.
    Surplus Commodities Program (1936); gives away food to poor; still exists as Food Stamp Program
    Fair Labor Standards Act 1938: established a maximum normal work week of 44 hours and a minimum wage of 40 cents/hour and outlawed most forms of child labor; still exists, hours have been lowered to 40 hours over the years.
    Surplus Commodities Program, 1936
    Rural Electrification Administration, (REA)one of the federal executive departments of the United States government charged with providing public utilities (electricity, telephone, water, sewer) to rural areas in the U.S. via public-private partnerships. still exists.
    Resettlement Administration (RA), Resettled poor tenant farmers; replaced by Farm Security Administration in 1935.
    Farm Security Administration (FSA), Helped poor farmers by a variety of economic and educational programs; still exists as Farmers Home Administration.
    New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Now, let's look at Mr. Ohanian:
    Lee E. Ohanian
    Professor of Economics, University of California, Los Angeles
    Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University
    Lee E. Ohanian | Papers

    And yes, it's THAT HOOVER, the Herbert Hoover that was president from the bursting of the stock market bubble in 1929 to the bottom of the depression in 1932.

    Here is the Hoover Institute's mission statement:
    Mission Statement

    Now more than five decades old, Herbert Hoover's 1959 statement to the Board of Trustees of Stanford University on the purpose and scope of the Hoover Institution continues to guide and define its mission in the twenty-first century:

    "This Institution supports the Constitution of the United States, its Bill of Rights and its method of representative government. Both our social and economic systems are based on private enterprise from which springs initiative and ingenuity.... Ours is a system where the Federal Government should undertake no governmental, social or economic action, except where local government, or the people, cannot undertake it for themselves.... The overall mission of this Institution is, from its records, to recall the voice of experience against the making of war, and by the study of these records and their publication, to recall man's endeavors to make and preserve peace, and to sustain for America the safeguards of the American way of life. This Institution is not, and must not be, a mere library. But with these purposes as its goal, the Institution itself must constantly and dynamically point the road to peace, to personal freedom, and to the safeguards of the American system."

    The principles of individual, economic, and political freedom; private enterprise; and representative government were fundamental to the vision of the Institution's founder. By collecting knowledge, generating ideas, and disseminating both, the Institution seeks to secure and safeguard peace, improve the human condition, and limit government intrusion into the lives of individuals.
    Mission Statement | Hoover Institution


    Do you think Ohanian is unbiased, or biased a LOT? He's totally biased. He may be correct that the NIRA program did not work well, but that does not prove that FDR didn't do anything good in the depths of the depression. The best proof that he did do good is the people kept electing him, in 1932, 36, 40 and 44. That was opposed to the one term republican Hoover, who was shown the door by the voters. That's proof of what the majority of the people at the time thought.

    Here is a refutation of Mr. Ohanian:
    http://rebello.wordpress.com/2009/02...imilar-effect/
    Last edited by finebead; 11-29-11 at 03:15 PM.

  9. #269
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    Do you think Ohanian is unbiased, or biased a LOT? He's totally biased.
    You mean the same Ohanian that stated 'Pro-labor policies pushed by President Herbert Hoover after the stock market crash of 1929 accounted for close to two-thirds of the drop in the nation's gross domestic product over the two years that followed, causing what might otherwise have been a bad recession to slip into the Great Depression'...'These findings suggest that the recession was three times worse — at a minimum — than it would otherwise have been, because of Hoover'.

    University of California - UC Newsroom | Hoover's pro-labor stance spurred Great Depression

    Bias, I don't see it.

  10. #270
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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    You mean the same Ohanian that stated 'Pro-labor policies pushed by President Herbert Hoover after the stock market crash of 1929 accounted for close to two-thirds of the drop in the nation's gross domestic product over the two years that followed, causing what might otherwise have been a bad recession to slip into the Great Depression'...'These findings suggest that the recession was three times worse — at a minimum — than it would otherwise have been, because of Hoover'.

    University of California - UC Newsroom | Hoover's pro-labor stance spurred Great Depression

    Bias, I don't see it.
    The bias isn't pro-Hoover, but pro small government conservatism. So coming out against President Hoover's allegedly pro-labor policy does not contradict the assertion of bias.

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