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Thread: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    This short sighted quote completely ignores what the alternative was, which was much worse than the negatives from the stimulus program. The alternative was a meltdown of the US economy.
    Prove it.

    Here we have Greenspan's view at the time:
    The ****ing idiot that helped cause this mess with his hair brained monetary policies.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    astonishment. you are left with only ad sourcinem.
    Why do all the links lead to the same list of CDO stories, but never links to the CBO itself?


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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Prove it.
    I have supported my position with quotes from Greenspan, a lifelong republican and chairman of the federal reserve for 16 years, across repub and dem administrations.

    You tell me what your alternative was, or show that collapse of the US economy was NOT an alternative, then we can talk. I'm already on the record with a supported position, and you've provided nothing but one liners. Your move.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    The testimony is lovely reading as well.

    Congressional Budget Office - Policies for Increasing Economic Growth and Employment in 2012 and 2013

    It discusses and weighs the impact of a handful of suggestions which have been floated.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Revised downwards what a shocker, not to mention it cost around a million a job.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    not to mention it cost around a million a job.
    What does that mean?

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    THE ECONOMIC OUTLOOK
    CBO expects that, in 2012 under current law, The unemployment rate will remain close to 9 percent and GDP growth will be about 2˝ percent, with the level of GDP remaining well below its potential.

    FISCAL POLICY OPTIONS FOR INCREASING ECONOMIC GROWTH AND EMPLOYMENT IN 2012 AND 2013

    One criterion for evaluating fiscal policy options is the impact on the economy per dollar of budgetary cost. Based on that measure of cost-effectiveness:

    Higher-impact policies: Reduce the incremental cost to businesses of adding employees or are targeted toward people who would be most likely to spend additional income.

    Lower-impact policies: Primarily affect businesses’ cash flow but have little impact on their incentives to hire or invest. Reductions in taxes and increases in government spending would produce short-term economic benefits—but without offsetting actions to reverse the accumulation of government debt, future output and future incomes would tend to be lower than they otherwise would have been
    Nice Post, Simon. I copied the part I liked the most again...just because. Actually, this has a bit of good news (bad?) for both sides of the aisle. But for President Obama? This does not bode well.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    CBO: Stimulus added up to 3.3M jobs - Josh Boak - POLITICO.com


    The economy would have been in much worse shape without the 2009 stimulus — which increased employment in the third quarter of this year by as many as 3.3 million full-time jobs, according to a report by the Congressional Budget Office.

    Republican lawmakers and presidential candidates have blasted the $800 billion pumped into the economy through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act as a waste of taxpayer dollars that failed to put people back to work.

    The nonpartisan CBO figures offer a more nuanced picture of how government spending impacted an economy still coping with unemployment above 9 percent. It provides an alternative glimpse of an economy with even higher unemployment and drastically lower growth.

    The CBO figures released Tuesday estimate that the stimulus package raised the gross domestic product this past quarter by 0.3 percent-1.9 percent.

    The CBO report provided a broad range of the estimated number of full-time jobs created because of the stimulus — from a low of 500,000 to a high of 3.3 million jobs.

    [snip]


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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    I have supported my position with quotes from Greenspan, a lifelong republican and chairman of the federal reserve for 16 years, across repub and dem administrations.
    Again, you say you can prove it by quoting the guy who is as responsible for the collapse as much as anyone. It's like quoting Captain Hazelwood if your arguement is that drinking on the job can be safe.

    You tell me what your alternative was, or show that collapse of the US economy was NOT an alternative, then we can talk. I'm already on the record with a supported position, and you've provided nothing but one liners. Your move.
    We were told that if we did not enact TARP that the markets might fall all the way to 7000. We did enact TARP and the markets still fell to 7000. All TARP did was put those who should actually be in prison back in the drivers seat.

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    Re: CBO: Stimulus hurts economy in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Again, you say you can prove it by quoting the guy who is as responsible for the collapse as much as anyone. It's like quoting Captain Hazelwood if your arguement is that drinking on the job can be safe.

    We were told that if we did not enact TARP that the markets might fall all the way to 7000. We did enact TARP and the markets still fell to 7000. All TARP did was put those who should actually be in prison back in the drivers seat.
    And still we have no alternate plan, and no facts to support why it would have worked better.

    I don't remember ANYONE saying if we did not do TARP the market would fall to 7000, please cite a source.

    Without TARP there would have been a LONG string of Lehman Bros. bankruptcies. How many banks, large and small, would have failed without TARP? Lots of them. A nation needs a banking system. What would we have looked like with bankrupt AIG, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup, Washington Mutual all going down in one quarter?

    You think we were not headed to collapse? Housing industry died. Banking industry could have been nuked. Auto industry nearly died. Everyone was scared to death. TARP saved the financial industry and the auto industry. Stimulus plan reassured the nation and people's apprehension began to decline, and the consumer began to spend again, slowly.

    Greenspan did play a role in the republican housing and mortgage debacle, but a minor role compared to the mortgage lenders and big investment banks. He drove rates too low in 2003 and 2004 and left them low for too long, which he did to get Bush re-elected in 2004, since Bush's tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 failed to stimulate the economy. Greenspan had power to regulate the banks and he failed to use it, being a free market advocate. By 2009, the time of the interview I quoted, Greenspan had NOT been fed chairman for 3 years, he was not speaking for the administration, and he has told the truth since he stepped down as fed chairman.

    At the end of the day, we could have a failed banking system and failed housing market that spiral down the whole economy as people are laid off and quit consuming everything except food (that is what took down the auto industry) and we can wait and see how many industries fail and how far down we go until we hit only necessary businesses (lot of pain long and short term), or we could step in, print money, backstop the banks, and provide money to people so they don't have to stop all consumption (long term pain from inflation due to devalued currency). There was no painless way out of the financial crisis the republicans put us in. To believe otherwise is juvenile.

    So, what was your other plan, and what do you cite to support it? Have you got anything beside a soundbite?
    Last edited by finebead; 11-23-11 at 08:03 AM.

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