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Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

If the protesters got physical while the police were removing them then it would it have been okay for the police to use pepper spray on them.
From what the video showed it looked like the protesters were just sitting refusing to move, not something that should be responded to with pepper spray. Two or two police could have picked each protester up and tossed them in the back of the paddy wagon.


Well, I think that the liberal supporters of this OWS stuff are turning this into a no win for law enforcement. And I am no cop, but I do believe that law enforcement would say that use of non lethal force such as pepper spray is not only meant to subdue threat, which IMHO surrounding police is a threat, but also to force people to submit without risk of injury. Is it pleasant? Hell no, it isn't supposed to be. But, The dept, has offered that they entered the quad to enforce a no tent rule, and were trying to leave when surrounded, and people sat and locked arms blocking the walkway. When officers told those blocking the walkway, which is clearly seen on video earlier the one officer tells them to clear the sidewalk or they'd be sprayed, and arrested. They refused, and they got what was told was coming. If they would have just cleared the sidewalk, then no one would have even been arrested, or harmed in any way. The protesters provoked this, and IMHO got what they deserved.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

If you choose to condemn only one side, that says something right there doesn't it?

Actually no because you are twisting what I said.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Well, I think that the liberal supporters of this OWS stuff are turning this into a no win for law enforcement. And I am no cop, but I do believe that law enforcement would say that use of non lethal force such as pepper spray is not only meant to subdue threat, which IMHO surrounding police is a threat, but also to force people to submit without risk of injury. Is it pleasant? Hell no, it isn't supposed to be. But, The dept, has offered that they entered the quad to enforce a no tent rule, and were trying to leave when surrounded, and people sat and locked arms blocking the walkway. When officers told those blocking the walkway, which is clearly seen on video earlier the one officer tells them to clear the sidewalk or they'd be sprayed, and arrested. They refused, and they got what was told was coming. If they would have just cleared the sidewalk, then no one would have even been arrested, or harmed in any way. The protesters provoked this, and IMHO got what they deserved.

j-mac

yes, do exactly as the government says, when it says so and you can practice you "rights". Is protest pleasant? Hell no, not all the time, and it isn't supposed to be. It's supposed to disrupt and clamor and make noise and get people to listen. The way you want people to "protest" leaves no room for actual protest. Line up nice, go stand in that corner where no one will see you, and you can do your thing. Else, we'll release government force upon you.

The real reason I dislike many of these sorts of authoritarian arguments isn't to say that we can't find reasonable medium. But rather that your authoritative arguments leave NO RESTRICTION upon the government force in ways and means through which it can infringe upon OUR RIGHTS, our free exercise there of. If forced to choose between the Government and the People, I will more times than not line up with the People. I find it sad when others defer immediately to State.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Well, I think that the liberal supporters of this OWS stuff are turning this into a no win for law enforcement. And I am no cop, but I do believe that law enforcement would say that use of non lethal force such as pepper spray is not only meant to subdue threat, which IMHO surrounding police is a threat, but also to force people to submit without risk of injury. Is it pleasant? Hell no, it isn't supposed to be. But, The dept, has offered that they entered the quad to enforce a no tent rule, and were trying to leave when surrounded, and people sat and locked arms blocking the walkway. When officers told those blocking the walkway, which is clearly seen on video earlier the one officer tells them to clear the sidewalk or they'd be sprayed, and arrested. They refused, and they got what was told was coming. If they would have just cleared the sidewalk, then no one would have even been arrested, or harmed in any way. The protesters provoked this, and IMHO got what they deserved.

j-mac

You nailed that one, brother! No matter what the cops did--short of doing nothing--the hand-wringers would have been screaming, "poweese bwutalwity".
 
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Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

yes, do exactly as the government says, when it says so and you can practice you "rights". Is protest pleasant? Hell no, not all the time, and it isn't supposed to be. It's supposed to disrupt and clamor and make noise and get people to listen. The way you want people to "protest" leaves no room for actual protest. Line up nice, go stand in that corner where no one will see you, and you can do your thing. Else, we'll release government force upon you.

The real reason I dislike many of these sorts of authoritarian arguments isn't to say that we can't find reasonable medium. But rather that your authoritative arguments leave NO RESTRICTION upon the government force in ways and means through which it can infringe upon OUR RIGHTS, our free exercise there of. If forced to choose between the Government and the People, I will more times than not line up with the People. I find it sad when others defer immediately to State.

I bet if government scientists told you to do/not do something, because it would help prevent global warming, you would give them your 100% support.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

You DO believe the protesters should have been cuffed and dragged...forcibly...without the use of teargas, right?

Why tear gas? And they were still cuffed and dragged forcefully... that's how police officers are trained to handcuff people. You believe they could only have handcuffed these individuals with the help of non-lethal weapons?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I bet if government scientists told you to do/not do something, because it would help prevent global warming, you would give them your 100% support.

How do you get to just troll this forum with uselessness like that? Un****ingreal. You crack me up, man. :lamo
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I bet if government scientists told you to do/not do something, because it would help prevent global warming, you would give them your 100% support.

Of course I would. They told me that ripping the air box off of my motorcycle was good for the environment, which is why I did it. Oh....wait.

You done with asinine assumption that cannot be supported with measurement? Or is this just the tip of the "idiot" iceberg we're going for here?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Suspended with pay, aka vacation! Can't get time off for that cruise just pepper spray some defenseless kid in the face! Problem solved!
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I'm glad to hear that the officer that did it was suspended. Hopefully that's in intermediate step on the road to him getting fired.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

yes, do exactly as the government says, when it says so and you can practice you "rights". Is protest pleasant? Hell no, not all the time, and it isn't supposed to be. It's supposed to disrupt and clamor and make noise and get people to listen. The way you want people to "protest" leaves no room for actual protest. Line up nice, go stand in that corner where no one will see you, and you can do your thing. Else, we'll release government force upon you.

The real reason I dislike many of these sorts of authoritarian arguments isn't to say that we can't find reasonable medium. But rather that your authoritative arguments leave NO RESTRICTION upon the government force in ways and means through which it can infringe upon OUR RIGHTS, our free exercise there of. If forced to choose between the Government and the People, I will more times than not line up with the People. I find it sad when others defer immediately to State.


Not at all. I think that some protests that become uncivil are absolutely warranted. The civil rights movement was a prime example, and under Dr. King's passive approach while the government tried to squash it through unwarranted force was a major reason why people lined up to support it. The Tea Party movement last year where protesters were gathered in order, peacefully, and left grounds cleaner than when they came, with a clear message, and plan to enact it then worked within the system to pull off an electoral upset was masterful.

I don't think that OWS has that. They have shown America everything from anti Semitic, to anti Capitalist views, and have literally shown their arse while defecating on private property, open air drug use, crime, and rape, disease, and propensity to violent action as in Oakland Ca. Not to mention the student loans to pay off, well Boo Freakin' Hoo!!! They have allowed Unions to infiltrate, and hijack the message, as well as Socialists, CPUSA, and the black hoodied thugs of anarchy. People want to see other assert their rights in this society, that is what makes this country special in the world, but their right to bitch doesn't cut off my right to go about my day in peace. When you have a 6 year old girl on the news talking about how the protesters scared her, then your movement has a big problem.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Why tear gas? And they were still cuffed and dragged forcefully... that's how police officers are trained to handcuff people. You believe they could only have handcuffed these individuals with the help of non-lethal weapons?
You believe they would have unclasped their hands and arms if the police just asked nicely? Oh...wait...they didnt. So you DO advocate that they should have physically forced them into cuffs. Well...OK...then...but that would have been considerably less pretty...
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Not at all. I think that some protests that become uncivil are absolutely warranted. The civil rights movement was a prime example, and under Dr. King's passive approach while the government tried to squash it through unwarranted force was a major reason why people lined up to support it. The Tea Party movement last year where protesters were gathered in order, peacefully, and left grounds cleaner than when they came, with a clear message, and plan to enact it then worked within the system to pull off an electoral upset was masterful.

I don't think that OWS has that. They have shown America everything from anti Semitic, to anti Capitalist views, and have literally shown their arse while defecating on private property, open air drug use, crime, and rape, disease, and propensity to violent action as in Oakland Ca. Not to mention the student loans to pay off, well Boo Freakin' Hoo!!! They have allowed Unions to infiltrate, and hijack the message, as well as Socialists, CPUSA, and the black hoodied thugs of anarchy. People want to see other assert their rights in this society, that is what makes this country special in the world, but their right to bitch doesn't cut off my right to go about my day in peace. When you have a 6 year old girl on the news talking about how the protesters scared her, then your movement has a big problem.

j-mac

Whether you believe it right or not, the right exists and MUST be recognized and upheld to its maximum. It is one of the consequences and repercussions of freedom. If you seek a free State, you MUST have the resolve and conviction to KEEP a free State.

Back in the 50's and such, the anarchists were allowed to preach open revolt and violence against the government. We've fallen a long way since there.
 
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Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Whether you believe it right or not, the right exists and MUST be recognized and upheld to its maximum. It is one of the consequences and repercussions of freedom. If you seek a free State, you MUST have the resolve and conviction to KEEP a free State.

Back in the 50's and such, the anarchists were allowed to preach open revolt and violence against the government. We've fallen a long way since there.


You clearly didn't read what I posted.


j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

You clearly didn't read what I posted.


j-mac

I've read what you posted. You feel OWS doesn't contain the same legitimacy to civil disobedience that other protests had. As I said, whether you believe so or not, the right to assemble and protest exists and MUST be recognized and upheld to its maximum.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I've read what you posted. You feel OWS doesn't contain the same legitimacy to civil disobedience that other protests had. As I said, whether you believe so or not, the right to assemble and protest exists and MUST be recognized and upheld to its maximum.


And so far it has been. To the point of property owners around Zucotti having their rights disrupted. But when they break the law, they get arrested. Period. Protest, but do so peacefully, and legally. Other than that in a civil society is an affront to the rights of others. And we all must live together no?


j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

How do you get to just troll this forum with uselessness like that? Un****ingreal. You crack me up, man. :lamo

How is it trolling to respond to a post that says "yes, do exactly as the government says, when it says so " with "I bet if government scientists told you to do/not do something, because it would help prevent global warming, you would give them your 100% support."? Its like when one poster says the 2nd amendment should be banned or heavily restricted because semi-automatic weapons did not exist in the 1700s and another poster responds with neither did cars,telephones, computers and etc.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

That 84 year old woman that may or may not have been sprayed with pepper spray is more of a man than the UC Davis bitches. Its just torturous I tells ya!
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I'm glad to hear that the officer that did it was suspended. Hopefully that's in intermediate step on the road to him getting fired.

Why fire the officer?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Of course I would. They told me that ripping the air box off of my motorcycle was good for the environment, which is why I did it. Oh....wait.

You done with asinine assumption that cannot be supported with measurement? Or is this just the tip of the "idiot" iceberg we're going for here?
.
Just wondering if you did what the government told you to do, since you seem to think that's a bad thing. Hypocrisy noted, sir
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Temporary eye discomfort is a better alternative than broken bones and the possibility of permanant physical disability...
How about dying from an asthma attack caused by the spray, is that okay with you??
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

I forget. How many died?

Be honest. If somebody had died from a health reaction to the spray, would it have changed how you feel about the situation one bit?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Be honest. If somebody had died from a health reaction to the spray, would it have changed how you feel about the situation one bit?

So now we have to consider events that never happened.....whew....man that is really a stretch...


j-mac
 
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