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Pepper spray: US campus police suspended

Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

CriticalThought said:
What the hell are you talking about?





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As you can see, the group with the semi-automatic hand guns, assault rifles, batons, and mace were clearly threatened by the group sitting down and the other group who had no weapons.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Free For All said:
All it did was make my eyes water... and its killed people!??! ****, I'm tougher than I thought.
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Yes, pepper spray can result in death if someone has a pre-existing medical condition (as can tasers).
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Ikari said:
Not disdain, but rather limited and regulated amount. Government is to be restricted.
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They didn't go in there with guns and tanks for Christ sakes! They went in there to remove the tents, not the protesters, and they were met with agitated protesters surrounding them to provoke an incident. That was stupid.

It can be, yes.
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Bull ****! You go get behind a cop in an agitated state and see what happens to you.

No it's not. That's some make believe you put in your head to argue against assembly and protest rights. Government is restricted, not the People. There was a time when "conservatives" understood that.
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Protest is fine. Occupation of private property, rape, violence, crime, and general threatening behavior is NOT! Good to know that you are against police safety.

The protest was peaceful, there is no permit for GOVERNMENT to act against it. In fact, it is specifically FORBIDDEN from doing so.
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You are just wrong in your interpenetration, it is as simple as that.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
They didn't go in there with guns and tanks for Christ sakes! They went in there to remove the tents, not the protesters, and they were met with agitated protesters surrounding them to provoke an incident. That was stupid.



Bull ****! You go get behind a cop in an agitated state and see what happens to you.



Protest is fine. Occupation of private property, rape, violence, crime, and general threatening behavior is NOT! Good to know that you are against police safety.



You are just wrong in your interpenetration, it is as simple as that.

j-mac
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I'm done debating. I can't debate people who misrepresent the facts, ignore clear evidence, and who use criminal thinking to rationalize the criminal behavior of others. You are entitled to your delusions and resentment. Good luck with that kiddo.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
They didn't go in there with guns and tanks for Christ sakes! They went in there to remove the tents, not the protesters, and they were met with agitated protesters surrounding them to provoke an incident. That was stupid.

j-mac
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It seems that there are more people with cameras surrounding the police than protesters. The protesters are sitting.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
They didn't go in there with guns and tanks for Christ sakes! They went in there to remove the tents, not the protesters, and they were met with agitated protesters surrounding them to provoke an incident. That was stupid.
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How are people sitting down ANY kind of threat to be pepper sprayed? In fact police many times the police have people sit down because it is easier to control them. So how did the protestors sitting down warrant a threat to pepper spray them?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac, you have misrepresented a few things:

1) You keep claiming there was an agitated crowd. I have seen no evidence of this in any of the videos, and the crowd was never maced - only those who were sitting on the ground.
2) They were on public property - not private. In fact, if it were private property, it would be even more legal if the owners consented.
3) I am not aware of any rape occurring or criminals in that crowd.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

CriticalThought said:
What the hell are you talking about?





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He's probably talking about the news report that stated prior to this all going down the police were sent in by the UC Davis Board to remove tents and in the process had to detain 5 people, and that a crowd of students then encircled the police officers and wouldnt let them leave. According to the CNN article Dr Patrick posted, that went on for about 20 minutes and the whole thing lasted much longer.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

VanceMack said:
He's probably talking about the news report that stated prior to this all going down the police were sent in by the UC Davis Board to remove tents and in the process had to detain 5 people, and that a crowd of students then encircled the police officers and wouldnt let them leave. According to the CNN article Dr Patrick posted, that went on for about 20 minutes and the whole thing lasted much longer.
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It's so weird how the video never captures that ****. It must be some conspiracy where cameras are made to not catch violent crowds, but only perfectly reasonable police reactions. Oh wait, that's right, your explanation still does not explain why they would mace people who were sitting down.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

CriticalThought said:
What the hell are you talking about?
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Ok, thanks for the videos, clearly they are telling the students on the walkway, blocking the walk that they have to move, or they will be sprayed. But even before that what happened? all you have is video of the moment right before the spraying. But from what I can see they are employing crowd control, and arrest. Perfectly legal and warranted from what I saw.

Look, they weren't concerned with those on the lawn, or not obstructing their path, so this was incited by the protesters plain and simple.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

whysoserious said:
It's so weird how the video never captures that ****. It must be some conspiracy where cameras are made to not catch violent crowds, but only perfectly reasonable police reactions. Oh wait, that's right, your explanation still does not explain why they would mace people who were sitting down.
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Simple, they were blocking the walk way, and they were told to move, and refused.


j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

VanceMack said:
He's probably talking about the news report that stated prior to this all going down the police were sent in by the UC Davis Board to remove tents and in the process had to detain 5 people, and that a crowd of students then encircled the police officers and wouldnt let them leave. According to the CNN article Dr Patrick posted, that went on for about 20 minutes and the whole thing lasted much longer.
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Exactly. Also I find it laughable that the crowd starts chanting "you can leave", "you can leave".....A public campus is not these peoples private property.

j-mac
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

whysoserious said:
It's so weird how the video never captures that ****. It must be some conspiracy where cameras are made to not catch violent crowds, but only perfectly reasonable police reactions. Oh wait, that's right, your explanation still does not explain why they would mace people who were sitting down.
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Why do you say "thats so weird"? Do you REALLY believe that there are some journalists with real integrity that are posting the truth whole truth and nothing but the truth and not just the **** that makers them look good? These video snippets always start in the middle of something dont they? You dont believe they are suddenly magically transported...frozen in time...until someone yells...ACTION...right?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
Exactly. Also I find it laughable that the crowd starts chanting "you can leave", "you can leave".....A public campus is not these peoples private property.

j-mac
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Frankly...at this point, I believe every police officer across the country ought to tell every mayor, chancelor, school president, etc to go **** themselves. They have been sent in to do a job and then as soon as they do the job the government officials feign outrage. Two words...**** and You. Let them burn the place to the ground. let them move back into the parks. Let them freeze to death, rape each other, do whatever the **** they want. I wouldnt blame the cops for refusing to lift a finger.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
Simple, they were blocking the walk way, and they were told to move, and refused.

j-mac
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That's not a valid reason to pepper spray anyone.

HEADWATERS FOREST DEFENSE v. THE COUNTY OF HUMBOLDT
Defendants asserted at trial that the protestors' use of
"black bears" constituted " `active' resistance to arrest," meriting the use of force. The Eureka Police Department defines
"active resistence" as occurring when the"subject is attempting to interfere with the officer's actions by inflicting pain or
physical injury to the officer without the use of a weapon or
object." 240 F.3d at 1202-3. Characterizing the protestors'
activities as "active resistance" is contrary to the facts of the
case, viewing them, as we must, in the light most favorable
to the protestors: the protestors were sitting peacefully, were
easily moved by the police, and did not threaten or harm the
officers. In sum, it would be clear to a reasonable officer that
it was excessive to use pepper spray against the nonviolent
protestors under these circumstances.
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Defendants' repeated use of pepper spray was also
clearly unreasonable. As we recently concluded, the use of
pepper spray "may be reasonable as a general policy to bring
an arrestee under control, but in a situation in which an
arrestee surrenders and is rendered helpless, any reasonable
officer would know that a continued use of the weapon or a
refusal without cause to alleviate its harmful effects constitutes excessive force." LaLonde v. County of Riverside, 204p
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This appellate court disagrees with you.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

VanceMack said:
Why do you say "thats so weird"? Do you REALLY believe that there are some journalists with real integrity that are posting the truth whole truth and nothing but the truth and not just the **** that makers them look good? These video snippets always start in the middle of something dont they? You dont believe they are suddenly magically transported...frozen in time...until someone yells...ACTION...right?
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Because for some reason whenever there is policy brutality there is always someone who says "but we can't see what happened 20 minutes before!", when in reality, what is happening in that very moment is enough to indict. In no way is pepper spraying a group of protesters who are sitting down a legitimate police tactic.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Ikari said:
Well that's pretty much what government thinks of protest rights.
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None of this happened during the Tea Party protests. I wonder why?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

VanceMack said:
Let them burn the place to the ground.... I wouldnt blame the cops for refusing to lift a finger.
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my sediments exactly, cut all federal funding to the state, local, and manciple police & fire dept. This budgeting would be at state levels leaving the feds out of it. There maybe lay-offs but really who cares they would be better off kicking the duds out of the dept. Get rid of their unions & collective bargaining. If your house burns tough crap, I don't care, take care of it yourself. If you get jacked then big deal I don't want to hear about it, buy a new one.

These goon squads are really starting to appear they have unlimited budgets opening up lawsuits to there local, They need to be shrunk down, to help prevent them getting to uptight.
 
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Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

j-mac said:
They didn't go in there with guns and tanks for Christ sakes! They went in there to remove the tents, not the protesters, and they were met with agitated protesters surrounding them to provoke an incident. That was stupid.
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I thought this was about this UC thing, which had none of these elements from the presented video.

j-mac said:
Bull ****! You go get behind a cop in an agitated state and see what happens to you.
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Does that mean I can take any individual who is standing behind me as posing an immediate threat to my person?


j-mac said:
Protest is fine. Occupation of private property, rape, violence, crime, and general threatening behavior is NOT! Good to know that you are against police safety.
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I was under the impression they were on school grounds (public), not private property. Nor did I hear from this case any amount of rape or violence. They seemed to be sitting there with arms interlocked before being sprayed in the face for their protest.


j-mac said:
You are just wrong in your interpenetration, it is as simple as that.

j-mac
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Yes, that damned Constitution again....leading to "wrong interpretations", eh? Nice.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

OK... For those of you who think the police were out of line, please tell me in your opinion, exactly what the police should have done to enforce the law in this situation?
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

apdst said:
None of this happened during the Tea Party protests. I wonder why?
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Well don't you know that's only because the police are being selective in their enforcement because they actually agree with the TEA party. LOL
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Grim17 said:
OK... For those of you who think the police were out of line, please tell me in your opinion, exactly what the police should have done to enforce the law in this situation?
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Protect the protesters from unwanted violence if there were violence and force aimed against the protesters.
 
Re: UC Berkley: Police use excessive force

Grim17 said:
OK... For those of you who think the police were out of line, please tell me in your opinion, exactly what the police should have done to enforce the law in this situation?
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I guess they could have arrested people... but that's what makes nonviolent protests so ****ing annoying to governments and so hard to ignore - you want them to go away, but it's hard to make them go away and there is no good reason to force them to.
 
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